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Tuesday, July 03, 2007

"Can't sit here." Black Cherokees being denied.



Updates
(Indian Country Today) Freedmen status at issue in Washington: In Oklahoma, Cherokee voters returned Principal Chief Chad Smith to office, and by a similarly wide margin approved a ballot measure canceling the BIA's authority to sign off on the tribe's constitution.

The world's eyes were on the June 23 votes because of the Cherokee freedmen, approximately 2,800 descendants of slaves kept by the Cherokee before the Civil War. After the war, in an 1866 treaty between the Cherokee and the federal government, the freedmen became tribal members. The Cherokee tried to vote them out of the tribe in March. The freedmen brought lawsuits in tribal and federal courts, and the BIA declined to validate the March results because the freedmen had not participated in the vote on an underlying change to the tribal constitution. The freedmen therefore remained tribal members.

But with freedmen permitted to vote June 23, tribal voters set up a showdown with the BIA by again eliminating its authority over the tribal constitution. To public knowledge, the tribe has not scheduled another vote on freedmen membership, but it has met the BIA's objection to its March vote ousting the freedmen.

Speculation on Capitol Hill, from a well-placed source asking for anonymity due to the racially charged nature of the freedmen issue, has it that the tribe may wait until the heat dies down to address the status of the freedmen, whose tribal citizenship the source considered ''provisional.''

In Washington, Rep. Diane Watson, D-Calif., continued to push a bill in the House of Representatives that would withdraw federal funding from the Cherokee, suspend the tribe's authority to operate a casino, and expose the tribe to freedmen lawsuits in nontribal court. Watson's bill has been referred to the Committee on Natural Resources and the Judiciary Committee, where the bill's backers hope that Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the Judiciary chairman, will schedule a hearing. Watson introduced the bill June 21 with backing from members of the Congressional Black Caucus. The caucus in its entirety has not endorsed the bill, though Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., said June 26 that it had been introduced ''by members of the Congressional Black Caucus.''

Tribal reaction to Watson's bill was immediate. Already on June 21, a longtime Indian attorney at a tribal-practice law firm in Washington expressed outrage over a ''termination bill.'' By June 26, the National Congress of American Indians had weighed in. Quoted in a news release, President Joe Garcia described the bill in terms of termination all over again:

''This is an uncalled for response to a question of treaty interpretation. When Alabama or California takes an action inconsistent with Congressional views, there is no discussion of revoking their statehood. The attempt to revoke tribal nationhood is equally inappropriate. Not since the Termination Era of the 1950s, when the official policy of the federal government was complete destruction of indigenous peoples, have we seen such a piece of legislation. NCAI was founded to oppose termination of Indian tribes.''

Garcia left no doubt NCAI will oppose the dismantling of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma proposed in Watson's bill, H.R. 2824 in the House.

Also on June 26, a key member of the Congressional Black Caucus and outspoken foe of the freedmen expulsion, Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., stood down from her uncompromising position of June 6, when she said at a subcommittee hearing that the Native American Housing Assistance and Self-Determination Act reauthorization bill would not move until the Cherokee freedmen issue was resolved.

The issue is far from resolved, and as subcommittee chairman Waters could have been as good as her word. But member statements at a hearing of the full Financial Services Committee in the House left no doubt that Waters had decided against acting to the detriment of all Indian country because of the Cherokee. The full committee, of which the Waters subcommittee is a part, moved the bill and a number of Democratic

representatives - Dan Boren of Oklahoma, Barney Frank of Massachusetts, Melvin Watt of North Carolina - praised Waters for keeping her eyes on the prize for Indian country too, as it were.

''But the issues raised by the Cherokees' treatment of the freedmen will not go away,'' she promised.

''Where tribal actions regarding membership are anchored upon dubious racial classifications that would violate hard-won civil rights laws in the United States, we've got a problem.''

Frank, the Financial Services chairman, also pledged to back Waters in addressing the freedmen issue in the future.

''The issue of the Cherokee and the race issue is a deeply troubling one. And I guess if we were dealing here with the Cherokee tribe alone, I don't think we would be going forward in the same way. But we are talking about legislation that affects all of the Native Americans, many, many other tribes, and the gentlewoman from California deserves a great deal of credit because this is obviously an issue which she, entirely correctly, feels very strongly that some injustice has been done, and we haven't yet figured out a way to deal with that without putting other people who should not be penalized into the mix. And what she's done is try to focus on the injustice without holding up a bill that's of importance to a range of others. But I intend to be fully supportive of her as she goes forward in trying to deal with this.

''We aren't finished yet with this piece of it. So we go forward with this bill because it does respond to the needs of all of the Native Americans. But this does not mean that any of us here are satisfied with the situation involving the Cherokees, and we will be revisiting that.''

Jacqueline Johnson, executive director of the National Congress of American Indians, downplayed the appearance of conflict between the CBC and American Indians. She said the caucus as a whole hasn't endorsed the Watson bill, and added that Indian country counts some caucus members among its most constant supporters. ''I think that the Cherokee issue may have raised issues that were peripheral, but I don't think it's insurmountable at all.''

--
This issue ain't going nowhere anytime soon.

(Indianz) ...Tribes should understand the Cherokee Nation is asking for support of it’s position that it can violate the Treaty of 1866 with the defense of sovereign immunity. It should be understood how dangerous this argument is for Tribes. While treaties do not give sovereignty to Tribes, sovereignty is inherent; they serve as supreme recognition of a nation’s power in the eyes of another. Tribes have utilized US Courts to enforce treaty rights to restore rights to land, water and rights against the United State. Imagine how the precedent will be used by crafty U.S. Attorneys if the Cherokees are successful in relieving their treaty rights under with the defense of sovereign immunity. Do you want the U.S. to claim sovereign immunity against your Tribe when defending your treaty rights? It is simply not in the best interest of a Tribe to argue against treaties."

(BlackAgendaReport) ..."Cherokee voters were influenced by the racist charge 'that the freedmen if not ejected, would use up all of the tribal service monies.'"

(Indianz) ...Dropping the Freedman group and Intermarried Whites as tribal members puts them on equal footing with millions of other American Indian descendants that have to prove their Indian heritage by blood and tribal roll number linkage. Something to think about: "What If Indian Nation leaders open up their tribal membership to anyone? If this happened it would change the political and economic structure of America. This action by Indian Nations would open up a Pandora's box the federal government never thought it would have to deal with again, after it's "for real holocaust" against American Indian Nations. Today, some African Americans claiming Indian heritage are calling themselves Black Indians. There is no such thing as a Black American Indian or White American Indian! You're American Indian or you're not! If you're Black or White and have Indian heritage, that is all you can and should claim. It's an insult to the American Indian community for people of another race to claim their Indian heritage while doing so through their dominant race color.

(Indianz) ...Tribes signed treaties for one reason and one reason alone: to simply ensure the survival of their people. The vote at Cherokee to determine who can rightfully claim citizenship is an example of Indian Country exercising its basic sovereign rights. To allow the tribes to be bullied again by the federal government would be to take back every step they have taken toward reclaiming nationhood.

--
Update 3/3/2007:
(Forbes) Cherokee Nation members voted Saturday to revoke the tribal citizenship of an estimated 2,800 descendants of the people the Cherokee once owned as slaves.

With a majority of districts reporting, 76 percent had voted in favor of an amendment to the tribal constitution that would limit citizenship to descendants of "by blood" tribe members as listed on the federal Dawes Commission's rolls from more than 100 years ago.

--
Original post 2/28/2007:
(Voice of America) Next month, members of the Cherokee Nation will vote on whether to amend the tribal constitution to make Indian blood a requirement for citizenship. American Indian tribes are considered sovereign nations within the United States, and their citizens are entitled to tribal benefits, including subsidized housing and health care. At issue in the March 3 vote is the status of thousands of descendants of African slaves once owned by tribal members. The people known as Cherokee freedmen say a 140-year-old treaty protects their citizenship in the Cherokee Nation. The story raises questions about Native American identity, race and justice.

The Cherokee tribe has always been one of the largest in the United States. Two centuries ago it was also once one of the wealthiest. Some of its members held more than 100 slaves on plantations in the south. In recent times, though, many Cherokee have lived in deep poverty. That situation is gradually improving, with the success of tribal casinos. Profits from these gambling operations are funding modern health clinics, like one rising from the countryside near Muskogee, Oklahoma...

Johnny Toomer, a forklift operator in Muskogee... says he hasn't been welcomed with open arms. "All I want to be done is done fairly and right... Toomer's great, great grandmother was the daughter of slaves held by the Cherokee. Her people likely walked to Oklahoma from Georgia in 1838 on the infamous Trail of Tears, a forced march under the U.S. government relocation policy that led to the death of nearly a fifth of the tribe...

A tribal court ruling last year forced the Cherokees to recognize Freedmen as citizens. That prompted Toomer and about 1,500 other Freedmen to sign up for membership cards. That sparked a referendum to amend the tribe's constitution and formally expel the Freedmen. "It's an Indian thing, we do not want non-Indians in the tribe," explains Jodie Fishinghawk, who helped lead the referendum drive. "Our Indian blood is what binds us together."

...after fighting on the losing side in the American Civil War, the Cherokees signed a treaty guaranteeing their newly-freed slaves citizenship in the tribe...

"You know, there never was such a thing as the Cherokee race," she says, pointing out that the Cherokee tribe has always been a diverse nation, not a race. "Cherokee was a citizenship. Actually, it's safer for the tribe to say 'We are a nation of people.' If you keep saying you're a race.…" She shakes her head. "The federal government doesn't have government-to-government relations with races, only nations"...

But this whole discussion of race really misses the point, according to Cherokee Principal Chief Chad Smith. Sitting in his office looking out at the sprawling tribal headquarters campus near Tahlequah, Oklahoma, Smith said more people do want to be in the tribes these days. But it's not so much because of subsidized health care and housing. He says it's a search for tribal identity. "And it's easy to grasp and look to tribes, who are indigenous and have a sense of identity, and have sustained themselves through terrible times."

The Cherokee freedmen maintain that their ancestors helped sustain the tribe through the very worst of times. They argue that now that things have improved, they shouldn't have to fight to call themselves Cherokees.

49 comments:

Rawley said...

Is the title meant to imply that what is being denied is the same as Jim Crow?

brian said...

is that question meant to get me into a never ending battle about how this struggle can never equate to the struggles of black folk against jim crow?

Rawley said...

It's a yes or no question.

brian said...

yes or no questions are used to back someone into a corner. a question is only "yes" or "no" in the head of the person asking the question, usually to start a larger discussion. why not just skip the formalities and start the larger discussion?

this issue has similarities AND differences with the issue of jim crow racism, the title implies both.

if we want to talk about what those similarities AND differences are, that's a conversation worth having to me.

Rawley said...

Is there research on the subject?

brian said...

google it. i'm leary of someone who JUST asks questions without giving anything back. let me know when you have something to say.

Rawley said...

I think I was trying to be self-reflexive here. I don't think the article mentioned denying anyone a seat on the bus. I asked a yes or no question about information you posted on your weblog. Yikes!
It just seems like that by putting this in the context of Jim Crow does not allow anyone to really view this issue in full. Just out of curiousity, was the paper that reported on aware of all the politics involved? And does the state of Oklahoma receive money from Indian casinos?

So, I did Google it, and it would seem that Theda Purdue is a researcher who has published material for historians.

brian said...

ah! that's what i was waiting for... your actual thoughts!

it was like you were teasing us or something.

you're right JUST putting it into the context of jim crow limits it. i certainly wasn't doing that.

uh oh you did it again tho... asking questions without giving some context... i'm interested in knowing what it would matter if the paper that reported this was aware of all the politics involved? what exactly are "all the politics"? and how would that effect the perspective of the article?

and I'm interested in knowing what it would matter whether or not "the state of Oklahoma receive[s] money from Indian casinos?"

I'm no expert on these issues. you seem to know more than you lead us to believe with the pseudo-rhetorical questions.

i never liked teachers that overused that tactic in school.

Rawley said...

Where are your 'actual thoughts' on this... you posted a story under a title, you obviously meant something?.I asked a question, I guess you answered it. Your answer was "no".

I suggest you write your teacher a letter and let him or her know you feel.

I guess I am assuming there are politics involved, not an unsafe assumption in our world, no?

Tasha said...

This is so disheartening, especially after the recent discussion we had on here about Blacks and American Indians working together more. The American Indians mentioned in the article seem to be buying into some racist ideas. Or some capitalist ones. A few extra bucks will not save the people. Get rich and die trying. If this is the majority attitude of Native Americans in this country, I would tell their Black "members" to get away fast. Hate is contagious. No money is worth taking it. We can find those who respect us to work on bettering this society.

brian said...

i doubt it's the "majority attitude" among native americans.

at the same time i understand the blood issue. but it seems like a nation ought to not just be based on blood ties.

if they are saying you can't be a member of the Cherokee race that's one thing, but I'm under the impression that tribal people all around the world have always had room for "migrants" in the tribe.

so you gotta wonder if it has something to do with that money and people's distrust that someone might be trying to join just to get a piece of the pie.

what really surprised me was that these Cherokee had slaves and fought on the pro-slavery side of the war.

RAWLEY... the answer was not "no". my whole point is that it is not a yes or no question but one that's more complex. when you ask is something "the same" as another thing... it's like a trick question. nobody can really answer that truthfully. in nature things are always similar and different, usually at the same time, but hardly ever "the same" or "identical".

so in some ways the title was meant to imply certain similarities to jim crow, in some ways the title wasn't meant to imply any similarities, in which case it was intended to be received as distinct from jim crow.

next question... i would assume there are politics involved as well. what i'm asking is if you'd like to expand on what you think "all those politics" might be. i'm genuinely interested in your specific perspective if you have one.

why would you suggest i write my teacher? i'm okay. i'm a grow ass man. it's the tactic that's annoying, i've no problem with the teachers themselves -- it's in the past, but you're doing it in this present communication, so i'd rather address your annoying characteristics. and surely you aren't my teacher (if you were i might be more able or willing to let it slide), which makes it that much more intolerable. anyway, you can't be serious, so i'll laugh that one off, cause even if you are, i can't take that seriously.

but if you feel like contributing something worthwhile i'm still humbly interested in knowing if you have any specific insight into how "all the politics" might specifically affect this issue.

i'm also still very much interested in hearing your view on what specific effect Oklahoma receiving money from the Indian casinos (or not) might have on this issue.

brian said...

(NY Times) ...Marilyn Vann said she could not believe that one election could determine whether she was allowed to claim Cherokee blood.

“There are Freedmen who can prove they have a full-blooded Cherokee grandfather who won’t be members,” said Ms. Vann, president of the Descendants of Freedmen of the Five Civilized Tribes. “And there are blond people who are 1/1000th Cherokee who are members.”

Mike Miller, the Cherokee Nation spokesman, agreed.

“We are aware that there are those who can prove Indian blood who are not Cherokee citizens, because they are not on the Dawes ‘by blood’ Rolls,” Mr. Miller said. “But I don’t know of a single tribe that determines citizenship through a bunch of sources.”

This is the second time in recent years that an Indian nation has tried to remove its Freedmen. The Seminole Freedmen won a similar legal battle in 2003.

The Seminoles were formed when refugees from several tribes joined with runaway slaves. But after the Seminoles denied their Freedmen voting rights and financial benefits, effectively abrogating the Treaty of 1866, the federal government refused to recognize the Seminoles as a sovereign nation.

Rawley said...

I will say that I think the Cherokee could probably do better comparing their form of democracy to a social democracy other than the United States, if they were looking for a model and all.
The Cherokees in this instance seem provincial in the highest degree.
My question is what are the Dawes Rolls and how does one find themselves on them?

Mizzy said...

kInteresting. What to say? I read this and then went to Indian Country Today online to find a link to this report from an Oklahoma tv station. The story below was published before the vote.

I will say that if there was a treaty agreement having to do with citizenship for freedman, than the Cherokee nation should uphold that treaty.


And welcome to Indian politics. It's weird. Take an Indian law class. I have and trust me it's proabably one of the most convoluted set of laws ever.

And me, I consider this Indian politics, because it would appear that the Freedman are Indians have been involved in Indian politics for the last century. So, simply by saying that they are black, already reduces freedman and freedwoman, to blood...or better put their human existences to biology.

I have an enrollment number and the federal government thinks they know exactly how much Indian I and the rest of my family are. And so, when I hear people being numbered and measured again, I am very much unimpressed and non-plussed.

This is an extraordinarily divisive issue in Indian country. And deserves a wide reading of the issues at hand. If you were to look around the U.S. we would find these exact same issues going on right now in Indian country, only usually it involves whites and Indians. There are Indian kids who can't get enrolled in federally recognized tribes because there parents are from different reservations and they are "not enough" Indian to meet a Tribe's blood quantum requirements.

Historically,from what I understand there were two distinct Cherokee communities. One that was Intermarried with whites and who participated in the South's slavocracy and another clan-based society that did not. All the Cherokee were removed from the Southwest in the 1830s and so this goes beyond the Dawes Act (1880s) and subsequent Dawes commissions (1900-1910) to the Jacksonian era in Indian policy. I use the legal term "Indian" here as it appears in the U.S. Constitution's Treaty making clause. Allotting land had the effect of dividing lands and dividing families. The policy of allotting lands based on blood quantum was a false science based on 19th century "race science" and phrenology. It was not an Indigenous invention and I am concerned that it is becoming normailized everyday when we don't question the impact these antiquated policy have on everyone involved.

It must be remembered that the Dawes commission was a federal policy that divided communally held reservation lands into parcels of land to be held by individuals, and as such the federal government required that every member be allotted land. If the Freedman were allotted land in the Cherokee nation, then this decision makes the Cherokee appear as 19th century as Jackson and the rest. It would then seem that the Tribal Chairman's comments about tribal identity are punitive. If there is tribal-federal land and dollars at stake then I think they should be more generous.



from kdtv in oklahoma

A vote on whether descendants of freed Cherokee Nation slaves can be members of the tribe now will be held on Saturday. Cherokee Nation voters will decide on whether to amend the tribal constitution to make Indian blood a requirement for citizenship.

The Cherokee Nation's Supreme Court ruled in March 2006 that freedmen did qualify for citizenship. More than 2,000 freedmen descendants have enrolled as citizens of the tribe since the court ruling.

Polls are open on Saturday 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

The measure will appear on the ballot as follows: --- This measure amends the Cherokee Nation Constitution section which deals with who can be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.

A vote “yes” for this amendment would mean that citizenship would be limited to those who are original enrollees or descendants of Cherokees by blood, Delawares by blood, or Shawnees by blood as listed on the Final Rolls of the Cherokee Nation commonly referred to as the Dawes Commission Rolls closed in 1906. This amendment would take away citizenship of current citizens and deny citizenship to future applicants who are solely descendants of those on either the Dawes Commission Intermarried Whites or Freedmen Rolls.

A vote “no” would mean that Intermarried Whites and Freedmen original enrollees and their descendants would continue to be eligible for citizenship.

Neither a “yes” nor a “no” vote will affect the citizenship rights of those individuals who are original enrollees or descendants of Cherokees by blood, Delawares by blood, or Shawnees by blood as listed on the Final Rolls of the Dawes Commission Rolls closed in 1906. ---

brian said...

rawley... what would finding a model other than the U.S. do to help the Cherokee? do you see them as imitating the U.S. in this action? and saying that if they had a different model their actions might be different?

the dawes rolls are explained in the original article. it's the official document used to distinguish "slave-originated" black Cherokees ("freedmen") from blood Cherokees.

i agree with mizzy, the agreement that granted former Cherokee (African/black) slaves Cherokee citizenship should be upheld from a realist perspective. that should be the immediate solution.

it'd be like southern states voting to revoke black citizenship in 2007.

Indian nations are not completely sovereign to me as long as they are bound in check by certain treaties that they cannot vote to change. they are more like states who have sacrificed certain rights to the federal government and have retained other rights. if they respect treaties that benefit them they should respect all treaties, not be able to pick and choose.

i don't know how else we can refer to the freedmen though? we have to keep the black identifier because the reality is showing that they are obviously not seen as blood Cherokee. and more so they have a unique historical experience to preserve in memory... that they were Cherokee slaves who were freed after the north won the war. and also that they are apart of the global group of Africans exploited and oppressed through the trans-Atlantic slaver trade, not to mention any cultural practices that African people have preserved through these experiences.

i think the thing that makes this distinctive from simply "Indian identity politics" that might include "whites" being denied by the tribe, is the slavery aspect involved. the fact that the Cherokee were on the loosing side of the war and were forced to free their slaves by the u.s. government and make them citizens.

the point about this being 19th century politics is interesting. because in reality it'd be almost impossible to ever really draw a clear line between the Cherokee reverting to a Cherokee paradigm and using the "white man's" 19th century paradigm to structure their society.

from what i see, Indians use the white man's politics when it can benefit them. like any oppressed people i think you often see a "closing of the ranks" from the oppressor... and that wouldn't surprise me... for instance Malcolm x infamously recalling himself telling a white girl she cannot help. but the interesting thing here is that you have an oppressed people with a certain amount of sovereign power and how are they using it? they are excluding other oppressed people, in fact they are continuing to exclude people who they oppressed.

damaris said...

Great issue!
Keep the Movement!

ms. stewart said...

I read that on yahoo this morning - isn't that shit CRAZY?!?!? Native Americans, WHAT?!?! Y'all should know the game! WTF!

Mizzy said...

brian-- the Dawes Act was a piece of national legislation that allotted lands on Reservations across the U.S. The Dawes Commission oversaw the process on several reservations, where lands was to be divided up. The idea was to make Indians into property owners. The legislation was passed in the 1880s, and in many cases, a person had to be of mixed-decent to own land individually, or if they were Native then they had to own land in order to prove they could be citizens. The Dawes commission in this instance must have created a roll for freedman. I bring this up because this is an important part of the context for this issue.

It's interesting to me that the Cherokee court would find in favor of the Freedman in terms of enrollment, and then there would be this vote. Obviously, there is a difference of opinion within the Tribe.

Why now...? is probably the question people are asking.

Ms. Steward, I think it's crazy that people are going to say... Native Americans should know the game. The game is still essentially going on...

I don't know all the issues at stake in the instance. I don't doubt that there are going to issues of power and race that play into this. What I have a really har time imagining is that what the power the Cherokee possess in this instance to determine the course of black communities is the same as the institutional weigh possessed by the U.S.

And not all Native American are involved. But, we are all effected. One of the things that is true, is that what law effects one federally recognized tribe effects every other federally recognized tribe.

brian said...

i disagree on the point of the Cherokee court.

in plain terms, it seems to have had little to do with the sovereign will of the Cherokee court to officially allow the freedmen into the tribe through the Dawes rolls.

it seems to me that the u.s. government told the Cherokee how they were going to determine a final list of who was in and who was not.

and further it seems to me that the u.s. after winning the civil war (by common sense in modern war terms -- the spoils go to the victors) essentially imposed it's will on the Cherokee and told them, look you have to free your slaves (for whatever reason the north had -- that's debatable) and further those who want to be citizens, you're going to make them citizens (i can imagine that the u.s. might have wanted to pass as many freedmen off to another government entity as possible).

if they wouldn't have lost the war, we can assume they would have changed nothing at that time.

so it seems like this sentiment might have been there for a while, at least in the tribe leadership. and over time as more benefits come from the government and the more people attempt to become citizens of the tribe for whatever reason, the more likely it is that they'll want to practice population control and keep the tribe population at a decent number.

so agreed, it's not the same power. rather, it's a copycat manifestation of the same power. not as effective as its big brother, but acting like him nevertheless.

when resources and the right to resources are at stake, who got thrown out? the people who descend from the people who originally had no power whatsoever upon arrival to this place. Indians fought (are fighting) a battle and lost (are loosing) their land. i see the similarity there.

although i really don't care about that point. because ultimately those descendants of which i am one, would never have gotten here if they too weren't on the loosing end of some battle in west Africa.

i really don't too much blame the Cherokee today. everyone's operating in a paradigm they didn't invent.

what would have been nice to see is a people educated enough to rise up and say we're going to change the paradigm.

unfortunately, that didn't happen for whatever reason.

Mizzy said...

And how do you know what the Cherokee court did or did not do? They seemed to upholding that part of the treaty, no matter what. So, what's the matter with that? That they didn't forcibly tell the U.S. to go to hell. Guess what happens, when a Tribe's tribal sovereignty is no longer recognized... when that treaty is abrogated? And the U.S. loves this... they can lose their lands. Don't believe me? The U.S. attempted to terminate reservations and settle allotment claims in the 1950s and 60s.

what I am saying is that native people often react to these blood quantum issues by saying... hey you're not Indian..."Enough". It creates a lot of heartache and headache in Indian communities. And too basically, everyone claims to be Cherokee.

Okay. It happens all that time. The federal government has been telling native people for 140 years that they are going to have to prove that they are native according to their blood heritage. And now it is basically saying the same thing to the Freedman. Don't you see that they are having to prove that they are Indian. Native People go through this everyday!!! So what is happening to the Freedman at this moment, is what is happening to Native people. And the feds use money and land as leverage. I simply hate to see one group of people being played against another for the profit of the U.S. government. Especially when the thing is administered by the BIA. Hell, the BIA probably took the Freedman allotments, sold them, and then kept the money, and told the Cherokee nation that it had settled all these claims. You know how they say, follow the money, well in this case, follow the land. If the Freedman are on Dawes Rolls, then they were allotted land, so the question is... who has the land today? How did they get it and who made the money.

I will say this again...there was a White-American Cherokee slave owning society who did not speak for all Cherokee society. And if I remember what I read correctly, the mixed-bloods made a treaty in 1938 which ultimately forced Cherokees off their traditional lands and left them open to Jackson's removal policy.It was called the Trail of Tears. And when the treasonness people were also removed to Indian Territory (oklahoma) the treasonness bunch were assisinated. But, because I don't know what happened during the civil war... I won't hazard a guess. But, I will say... if I know Indian politics... huh, don't be so certain that everything is as simple as it looks.

But, I don't think that that means that they are imitation "little brother" white people.

brian said...

i'm just assuming that the black Cherokee were slaves and at a point in time after the war they were "made" free. so i'm assuming that the reason they were made free was because the Cherokee were on the loosing side of the war. regardless of what the consequences would have been if they had continued to resist. the fact that they cannot tell the u.s. to go to hell without risking their land shows their level of dependence on the u.s. right?

i'm not saying they should/shouldn't have told the u.s. to go to hell and risked all that. it's theirs to risk i guess. i am saying it'd be wonderful to see.

i'm taking that what you're saying is that the freedmen's being outcast from the tribe has more to do with a larger issue of downsizing tribes by any means? and this was merely another opportunity to do that because of the obvious lack of proof of bloodline?

Mizzy said...

No, I am saying that most Native people are sick of having to prove that they are Native through federal processes. Next to my name, and the names of a lot of people, is a fraction that is used to determine membership in a federal recognized tribe. It differs from Tribe to Tribe, and most tribes (Hopi, Ho-chunk and others are exceptions) require that people be at least 1/4 to become a member of the tribe. And it is a process that was started when land allotments began. People were listed "full-blood" and "mixed-blood" and whatever. Today there is this silent war in most Indian communities over blood quantum. In certain situations historically, mixed-bloods could own land, and full-bloods could not. And this has been going on for like 100 years, and it is a live issue, believe me. Tribes have to change their tribal constitutions if they want to change enrollment requirements. Apparently, the Cherokee nation in OK didn't have a blood quantum requirement.
And then it maye that a lot of Indian people didn't like the idea of enrolling Freedman, because they think that they are using race as a leverage issue, when the issue of how Native people are forced to prove their biological 'nativeness' all the time.

It's sort of interesting to me how the one Freedman enrollee was saying that the Cherokee Nation is not based on race, but rather on culture. And it seems that she and the woman who was speaking for the Cherokee nation (not that anyone interviewed anyone on the Cherokee court) was saying yes, it's about culture. Is she saying that Freedman are not culturally Cherokee? It seems she is... but the only method that members of the felt that they had were to use in order to stop Freedman from becoming full tribal members was the blood quantum issue. And I can sort of see why they did it, they probably said to themselves... this will also stop white people who are like 1/1600th Cherokee from trying to enroll in our tribe using some birth certificate they dug from forever ago. (which does happen) So, the Cherokee use a U.S. tool designed to allot lands to stop the Freedman group from enrolling. (This case looks like its going to federal court.) So, it is effect a double bind.

So, it would seem that the culture of racism in the U.S. is again to blame.

brian said...

"maybe... a lot of Indian people didn't like the idea of enrolling Freedman, because they think that they are using race as a leverage issue"

but what does that have to do specifically with the fact that the Cherokee recognized their own former slaves as members of the tribe (i say forced, but it doesn't really matter) and then went back on that? this isn't a race issue... it's a slavery and citizenship issue in my view. the simple difference of being a slave of a nation and being a citizen of a nation.

the nation has no problem recognizing them when they are slaves but there's a problem recognizing them when they are "freedmen". that's the fundamental point that i'm not getting. there's just no excuse.

even if they are now are using them as an example to fight a larger blood quantum issue...

the tool (the dawes rolls) were designed by the u.s. but they're using the tool right?

so it's like they use its power when they can... but hate the tool at the same time.

wouldn't you like to see them, as a "nation", not ride the fence like that?

Mizzy said...

That is apart of what I am saying. Those on the Court know what is in their treaties and are maybe acting in that regard. And then their was some sort of constitutional referendum and the blood quantum piece came forward.

I think maybe they are using it as a tool. I don't think it is right.

And it looks as if it could end up that they will be in federal court with the U.S. acting as arbiter, and power broker. What I fear is that all the internalized stuff around blood quantum will twist in the stomaches of everyone... all the fears, and whatnot and no one will say what's really on their minds, and people will lose more.

So, I bring this stuff up... because this is the backlog, the garbage, the clog, etc.

Mizzy said...

And... the question still remains... what happened to the Freedman allotments? If they were on the Dawes's commission rolls, some decision was made regarding these allotments. It might be that they are enrolling as members to claim those allotments. If that is the case, then the Cherokee Nation is taking lands from Freedman who were allotted lands. So, the double bind could be that the Freedman must use their allotment records to "prove" their citizenship in the Cherokee Nation and then must make a claim to those same allotments. That is worth asking. It doesn't take away from what I am saying, and to me it means that then the Cherokee Nation needs to do some real work.

brian said...

i feel the first comment...

the land issue of course that is a great question, who will benefit from the land that the freedmen have lost?

i don't get this though... "the double bind could be that the Freedman must use their allotment records to "prove" their citizenship... and then must make a claim to those same allotments."

are u saying this is a strategy they may use in court? and then if their former allotments have been given away and they win their case, then they'll have to take land back from those people who it was givin to?

Mizzy said...

No. What I am saying is that this: if this part about having to use allotment records to prove membership were true... then they would have to use the same allotment records to claim their allotments. That sucks.

This is the whole thing about individual property ownership in Indian country. There is a group here in Minnesota that is trying to help tribes with issues of "fractionated" lands.

The thing is... is that if they were allotted lands, then those are their allotments. Anyone with such an allotment in Indian country will tell you that, I guarantee it. And if the lands were sold or the monies from the sale of those lands were mishandled (say Cobell v Norton) then they have recourse. If they are saying that that they have to establish tribal membership first, and have to use their allotment records, then they should.

I start to wonder how the allotment process was handled in this instance. That is the big question that ought to be asked.

brian said...

so they keep their land even though they've been kicked out of the tribe?

and if the tribe tries to give the land away or sell it then the freedman have recourse?

how does that help them though? recourse to what? recourse to get compensated with money?

"If they are saying that that they have to establish tribal membership first, and have to use their allotment records, then they should."

who is saying or would be saying this? i don't get this part.

Mizzy said...

Don't get me wrong, I am sort of confused by this case too... but this is the question that should have been asked. But, yes, theoretically, they could still claim their allotments. If the Freedman Dawes Commission records were used for the purpose of allotting land, then they had at some point, a claim to those allotments. But, maybe they are saying that they are most interested in establishing tribal membership first, and figuring this other stuff out later.

Recourse, again, is through federal court.

If we were to read up on the Seminole case we might learn something about how a similiar issue was handled.

brian said...

i guess asking the land question might have delayed it or might make it not as easy to kick them out as everyone is thinking as this is put through the court.

but what's crazy is that if the Cherokee first kick the freedmen out and pull their citizenship to the tribe.... as the Seminole case seems to suggest... even if the freedmen go to the u.s. courts, the u.s. courts can't force the Cherokee to even show up in court! because they are "sovereign"!

so the recourse seems useless.

http://www.indianz.com/News/2004/003156.asp

brian said...

In a closely-related case, the Interior Department did take a position when the Seminole Nation voted to deny citizenship to its Freedmen. The Bureau of Indian Affairs refused to recognize the leadership of the tribe and cut off all federal funding until the Freedmen were restored...

Despite the court's refusal to halt the election, Kennedy has previously ruled against the tribe. In December, he joined the tribe as a party, citing a history of marginalization of the Freedmen by the Cherokees.

In that ruling, he said the 1866 treaty and the Thirteenth Amendment waived the tribe's immunity from suit. As a preliminary matter in yesterday's ruling, he reaffirmed that the court has jurisdiction over the tribe.

The Freedmen also won a critical ruling before the Cherokee Nation's top court. In a 2-1 decision in March 2006, the Judicial Appeals Tribunal said tribal citizenship is open to anyone who can show his or her ancestor appeared on the Dawes Roll.

The roll includes Cherokees, Delawares, Shawnees and Freedmen. But the upcoming election would only deny citizenship to the Freedmen because it would require them to prove they have Indian blood.

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001496.asp

brian said...

"Representatives of the freedmen have played the race card, screaming that the actions of the Cherokee people were based on racism. In response to such harsh and unfounded criticism, I must respond on behalf of my people. Cherokees are a warm, open, tolerant group of people. The Cherokee Nation's citizenship policy is one of the most open and inclusive in all of Indian country. Of the 270,000 Cherokee citizens, there are many who are racially black, racially white, racially Hispanic and racially Asian. However, each one shares a common bond of having a Cherokee ancestor on the base roll of 1906. Regardless of their race, they are citizens of the Cherokee Nation and are accepted and are part of the Cherokee family.

The fact is the Dawes Roll is the base roll of 1906 and if you had Indian blood, you are listed as an Indian. Jack Baker, an esteemed genealogist, provided abundant proof of that. In fact, the freedmen's own expert witness, professor Dan Littlefield, has stated that only a very few of those with Cherokee and freedmen blood were put on the freedman roll instead of the Cherokee by blood roll. Experts on all sides of the issue agree that the non-Indian rolls of the Cherokee Nation were made up almost entirely of non-Indians. It is unfortunate that some of these non-Indians chose to play a race card and choose to play victim rather than explaining to the Cherokee people why these descendants should be citizens of the Cherokee Nation.

Courts have repeatedly held that only the Cherokee people can decide who can be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. That fundamental decision is not the principal chief's, the tribal council's or even the courts'; it is the right of the Cherokee people to do so. In this election, they made that decision overwhelmingly - that to be a citizen of the Cherokee Nation, you have to have a common bond, a Cherokee, Delaware or Shawnee ancestor on the base roll. That is certainly not too much to ask."


http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001775.asp

brian said...

"A victim of one the worst chapters in American history, the Cherokee Nation has lost its moral high ground.

On Saturday, Cherokee voters revoked the tribal citizenship of descendents of black slaves — people whose lineage and history have been interwoven with the American Indian tribe since the earliest days of the United States.

By a vote of more than 3 to 1, members of the Cherokee Nation — headquartered in Tahlequah, Okla. — adopted an amendment to their constitution that excludes “Freedmen” (referring to those descended from slaves once owned by the Cherokee, as well as blacks who were married to Cherokees and children of mixed-race families) from the tribe’s rolls.

In a dangerous and grotesque turn of events, it seems the Freedmen’s blood isn’t pure enough for the Cherokee.

Why, after so many years, does it matter? The answer is one part greed, one part racism."

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001762.asp

brian said...

Descendants of the Cherokee Freedmen won't give up their citizenship in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma without a fight

The Freedmen plan to file a challenge to the election in which 77 percent voted to deny them citizenship. They also plan to lobby the federal government to cut funding to the Cherokee Nation, as the Bureau of Indian Affairs did when the Seminole Nation denied citizenship to its Freedmen.

The Freedmen are descendants of former African slaves who were made members of the tribe by an 1866 treaty. Their ancestors appeared on the Dawes Roll, but their Indian blood was not recorded.

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001726.asp

brian said...

"Over the weekend the Cherokee Nation voted to revoke citizenship from the descendents of slaves owned by the tribe more than a century ago. A group representing the 2,800 affected members plans to fight the election results. What exactly do you get for being Cherokee?

A lot of government assistance. Like the members of other Native American tribes, Cherokees have access to free health care at tribe-run clinics and hospitals. Prescription drugs, eyeglasses, and hospitalizations are all covered under this system, which the tribe operates with funding from the federal Indian Health Services. (The quality of care isn't always the best; in the 1970s the IHS was even accused of sterilizing women without their consent.) The tribe's housing authority also uses government money to help Cherokees buy and remodel homes.

Being Cherokee might also earn you scholarship money. College students can score $1,000 per semester, with preferences given to those closest to graduation. About 2,000 students (or 90 percent of those who apply) receive the grants. Those who are heading into the gaming and travel industries can even get a free ride. The tribe gives full scholarships for students studying hospitality administration through a distance-learning program at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas—with the understanding that students will work for Cherokee-owned casinos and businesses when they're done.

The size of the Cherokee casino business makes membership a boon even for job hunters who didn't major in hospitality. The Cherokee Nation is Oklahoma's biggest employer and has more than 6,000 people on the payroll. Tribal law grants Cherokee members first dibs at these jobs, followed by other Native Americans and then everyone else. (Cherokee citizens can also vote in tribal elections, and they have the right to own Cherokee Nation license plates.)"

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001687.asp

brian said...

"In 2006, the Judicial Appeals Tribunal (JAT), now the Cherokee Nation Supreme Court, ruled that a Cherokee Nation law that limited citizenship in the nation to Cherokees, Shawnees and Delawares by blood was unconstitutional because it excluded freedmen and other non-Indians who were listed on separate Dawes Rolls..."

http://www.indianz.com/News/2007/001638.asp

Mizzy said...

Notice how noone discussed what happen to their allotments! This is the question! What happened to their land allotments?

brian said...

yeah i peeped that. it's like you said, they gotta be leaving that for latter... or just not caring about it right now. if you can kick them out the tribe, why can't you take their land too.

it'd be interesting if they were allowed to stay on the land and still not be citizens of the Cherokee nation.

Mizzy said...

well, the thing is is that tribal politics is predicated on the practices that my community and I are one part of each other, so too with the land and people, each is one part of the other. so, one does not stay on the land and not become part of the community...it's sort'a antithetical to tribal politics and well, indigenous cultures. Tribal citizenship is hopefully in concert with some of these values, but the land has been chopped up. Most reservations look like screwy checker-boards due to allotmnent policy. And there are deep divisions between community members based often times on who had what land and who didn't get what land and so on. Today, most older people who see younger people inherit land are afraid that they will not see the value in community and will sell off their allotments for a quick buck, and tear up the reservation and trust lands even more.

my part here with pointing up the allotment question is that there may have been some theft of the land and then some cover up. I don't know that for sure. But, that is has happened with allotments is no joke. Citizenship is an important issue here. Something stuck out to me about how the Freedman were not listed as blood Cherokee. It seemed to me in the first article that the Freedman were saying that they are in fact mixed-blood Cherokees, but because they are identified as racially black, then they weren't listed on the Blood Cherokee rolls. I mean this is an important point. At least on my grandfather's reservation, anthropologists came from Washington to White Earth in 1906 (Dawes's commission called the Clapp Act in MN) to determine who was "full-blooded" and who was "mixed-blooded". There methods were not scientific to say the least. Mixed-bloods could sell their lands and full-bloods could not. This was 1906 when American Indians, including both, were not citizens of the United States yet. So, how this Freedman roll was created is yet another piece to this question.
Welcome to Federal Indian Policy 101.

lydia howell said...

I'd say the Chreikee using 'blood quanmtom" to oust the black
descendents of former enslaved/tribal members is another example of what
the genius African-American, lesbian-feminist Audre Lorde observed:

"You can not use the Master's tools to dismantle the Master's house."

It's a lesson we seem to ahve to learn over & over.

brian said...

i feel you.

the whole thing is taking place on two (or more levels)...

the ideal and the political...

in truth the land and the people cannot be separated...

but in politics they can be theoretically. so it'll be interesting to see how that works out...

and yeah if we really were in any pursuit of truth, we'd throw this whole blood quantum crap out the window...

if there ever was an unscientific science that is it.

as always the question is, are you for a radical restructuring of things or for an attempt at reforming things until they resemble something you can live with?

Mizzy said...

I don't think we are "living" with it now. I would radically alter the reservation system too, but tribal sovereignty is the only thing resembling a political identity for Americans Indians in the U.S. today.
There are people right now attending university classes on scholarship... it's never just what I want.
I think in this situation: Someone should ask the Tribal Chairman of the Cherokee nation if the Freedman have land allotments in the Cherokee nation. That's what I think.

brian said...

i was moreso pointing out the fact that there are often two different states of mind that people are in. and each person has a tipping point.

it's a fact that some gardens are kept so badly that they get to that tipping point where you must retill everything, fertilize the soil and start all over.

but not everyone perceives the tipping point the same because of hope and faith and often times attachment. and sometimes because the garden is still producing fruit even though the tipping point has passed, so we don't perceive there being a problem.

sometimes we believe that we haven't reached that point yet and so we continue to try and save the current garden by diversifying the types of seeds we plant, trying to save the soil with compost, pulling weeds, etc.

but people get to a point where they decide/realize for themselves that the composition of this garden is lost and it cannot be saved without starting over and retilling (i.e. destroying) the entire garden.

and i agree... the issue of the land allotments ought to be brought to the attention of the tribal chairman or the courts. I'm sure it will be by the freedmen themselves.

Mizzy said...

I guess the garden metaphor is apt. I was trying to be information in regards to what the issues are, because its clear from the post that not too many people are aware of some of the issues surrounding stuff like this. And now you seem to be saying that somehow I am not up on all this enough and maybe should start gardening or something. Something vaguely personal. I don't quite get it. I was trying to point out that there is a whole other context for this other than just looking at it from a black/white dichotomy. So, I tried to informative about federal Indian policy. And you know... my grandfather's generation were very adamant about understanding what these treaties actually contained, and they fought for that. This was a generation of boarding school educated World War II vets (and consciensious objectors) who knew that treaties were going uninforced. My grandfather and his generation didn't have the money to send us to school, and they understood that the federal government had agreed to provide money for education for generations to come, because there grandparents had signed those treaties. And there's more to it than even this. So, when you talk blithely about some garden or whatever, please understand you're not just talking about a set of papers, you're talking about decisions made for us by our parents and grandparents in the best interests of children and grandchildren.

brian said...

i started simply talking about the complexity and craziness of a situation where a culture might believe that land cannot be separated from the people but the politics say otherwise. and i said it will be interesting to see how that plays out -- if the freedmen have a right to demand their land but are not apart of the tribe and the land becomes separated from the tribe.

then my garden metaphor was basically my way of articulating how frustrating those complexities and that craziness can be. your mentioning of how reservation land resembles "screwy checker-boards" made me think of a situation that is in chaos.

and like a garden in chaos or any situation in chaos, there is a tipping point. people perceive it at different times. your grandfather sounds like someone who had hope in making things right or at least more clear. illustrated to me by your saying he continued to fight for the upholding of the agreements contained in treaties. my grandparents were similar, both in minnesota and in east africa.

i haven't wholly decided if i believe the tipping point has passed or not. but in order to have the kind of hope it takes to fight to have a treaty upheld, you have to believe that it's worth the fight, that it's not too late. i'm simply saying it's a valid dilemma that i and others i'm sure feel... i'm sure some of the black Cherokee feel it as well... is it too late? is it worth the energy to fight? or not? or are we better off starting something new? i don't need an answer to that question. i'm just pointing out that it's a question many ask and are asking.

and i don't consider it a dishonor to ask that question even though my grandparents answered it. i realize i have to answer it for myself as my children ought to do as well, regardless of what i might prefer they do.

Miz said...

Somebody please ask whether the Freedman were allotted land by the Dawes Commission! The rest is unimportant. Follow the paper trail. The Cherokee Nation needs to uphold their Treaty! Not because they need to uphold the moral highground, because the Cherokee Nation made an agreement.

miz said...

Wait a second, if what Katz is saying in this article (linked here) about the SoutWestern U.S. pre-1865, his scholarship would change our entire understanding of the U.S. civil war. There is a suggestion that Florida would have become a seperate Territory. It seems sort of logical. Only Katz is an ethnographer, I think... When one focuses on race and identity, it sort ends always on a melancholy note. But, there is something more interesting here... that the threat of a Seminole rebellion would have been large enough to threaten the entire economic structure of the South. A slave revolt in Haiti has ended in revolution and a new nation, why couldn't it have happened in Florida as well, or so the logic of this would suggest. It doesn't seem however that the Seminoles had a new national government in mind, but how would we know? It was CLR James's The Black Jacobins who first put the Haitian Revolution in front of historians and the world. But, I digress. If we understand what Katz's argument is in this article as geo-political then the civil war cannot be cast as North v. South. In a very real respect Katz's argument is about the kind of inherent sovereignty American Indians often discuss. His arguements suggest that Black and Indigenous alliances across the country were larger than what has been written about to date. I really believe it. I have studied enough U.S. history as an undergrad in American Indian Studies and as a Ph.D student in American Studies to sort of get the general thrust of what he is trying to say here. Don't get me wrong, no one has to be a Ph.D. to appreciate his arguement, and it's not merely academic, but I think now after having revisited this... this moment could reveal some very rich stuff.

Mizzy said...

These comments were made recently during a discussion regarding slavery and American Indians by the Mayor of Houston. I heard about it because a friend emailed me, and I can only think that the comments made by the mayor are in response to the Cherokee Freedman issue. I think most American Indians knew this was coming at some point. That racist white people would take this issue as an opportunity to cry that Indians are somehow getting over in America. And I think this is why most Indians were quick to take sides on the Cherokee Enrollment issue. Poor white people, I think, see treaties and whatever as welfare. The article begot a huge response of American Indian vets and soldiers.
As a former scholar of America Indian history, I understand much more than I did two weeks ago. For instance, when I linked to the Black Seminoles site...posted on the Liberator, I soon realized that I did not understand the extent to which Africans and Indians in the "New World" were pitted against one another. If you visit that site you will see a copy of the Treaty of New York that includes a clause about how Creeks must agree to return runaway slaves. And I am not going to stand for this kind of internal racial division at all. As an undergrad in American Indian studies I never learned of any such thing. And I can honestly say, I was miseducated. None of us can afford to live in this place in ignorance. It was a genocide perpetrated against Africans and Indians at one in the same time, and it was all about property. Accept the pursuit of property or die. We have got to think more clearly that this.

***********************************

Houston's Mayor Pro Team member and City Council Member Michael Berry insulted American Indian listeners during his talk show on slavery and Indians on KPRC Radio 950. The American Indian Genocide Museum in Houston urges others to respond.

Houston's Berry said:

"We need to stop wasting all this time and energy apologizing to the American Indian, which we continue to do ... We give them casinos, we give them special licenses, we give them special scholarships and why I don't understand ..."

" We conquered them, that's history - Hello "

" You got to be against giving welfare to the American Indians because of the fact , that 200 years ago they were whipped in a war. Lets just call it what it is, they lost a war."

His website: http://www.michaelberry.com/

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