"BUMPED" [bumping this post back up to the top due to the great comments]
I don't pay attention to (famous) people getting married, so I didn't even know Usher had jumped the broom. But I was surprised in a good way, due to Celebrity backwardness, at the look of his wife. She look like she can cook Grits AND Greens. Not at the same time of course, but ya just can't have a girl who can only cook breakfast so the greens are vital. Plus grits for me have always been a more nuclear family, Sunday morning thing, greens are extended family, feast material.
Friday, April 11, 2008
Can she cook grits AND greens?
topics: by achali, cooking, food, greens, grits, love, marriage, most popular blog posts, relationships, top ten blog posts, usher
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43 comments:
lol..i doubt tameka ( why do i know her name because I procastinate A LOT!) is the cooking greens and grits type---i can see her telling the cook to hook it up
interesting though, your comments:-)...what about tameka makes you think she can cook?
she just resembles women in my life who i know got soul (even tho they bougie). so i just assumed that ya know... but maybe i'm wrong
lol..i dont KNOW her or anything..just thought you may have been talking about phenotype and what not...correlating that to cooking abilities or down-home-ness but i read to much in to it;-)
well i guess the women she resembles in my life dress themselves like her... clean but not overdone... her clothes seem to be sexual (in this pic she's showing a little cleavage) but still "proper"... and modest...
she's HEALTHY lookin...
she also looks a little older/mature... not star struck or arrogant... just calm, like she could take care of someone.
gotcha ya
"lol..i doubt tameka ( why do i know her name because I procastinate A LOT!"
ahhahaha
Yeah, co-sign on this post. For what it's worth I love grits and the smell of collard greens make me want to throw up but I love making salads with watercress and arugula so it all balances out. :)
they aint gotta be COLLARDS... they could be spinach greens... whatever... and they ain't gotta be hamhock either... long as they good.
danielle,
i mess around with arugula too but dont sleep on mustard greens and kale...i make em sans the smoked neckbones ( my mama's recipe) and they hit the spot.
arugula, mustard greens, kale... yup those too.
Kale, spinach, mustard greens.
Done and done.
-Runs off to Whole Foods-
Yes, Whole Foods! Go hard or go home, eff Giant.
But Farmers Markets are good too. :)
lol! Well, being a little older than Mr. Raymond might give Wifey an edge (she has kids already, has been married and clearly knows how to do the "taking-care-of-home" thing).
She really DOES look like she can cook though! lol!
Funny because in the Essence article she talked about how people said she didn't have the "look" that they thought of when they think Usher's "woman".
Maybe because she's a dark "brown-skinned-lady"? Or a little older than him?
Either way, she got him to WIFE her! That takes skill! So I mess with her! yup!
"Either way, she got him to WIFE her! That takes skill! So I mess with her! yup!"
I dont mean any harm, ElectricLday....and i probably shouldnt say anything but I always smart a little when I read a comment similiar to this. I wanna get married and cook greens and grits (and I will fry chicken and bacon to go with respectively...even if I dont do the meat thing). I look forward to finding the time to be domestic and taking care of someone.
but should getting someone to marry you be a like sport or an audition/interview for a job....why cant it be that HE got her to marry him?
i dont agree with trying with the idea of trying to get someone to marry you...or having to have the skills to prove you're worthy of it...i think that marriage should become a given ( if two peopple are marriage-minded)after a certain point of time where Both of the people have put in the work to show they can do thing for the long haul.
Down with this woman-prove-yourself-worthy-so-that-I-can-grant-you-the -pleasure-of-my-marrying-you mentality! lol
of course we are entitled to see it like we wanna..im just saying...cuz thats how it came off
my original comments about why she looked liked she could cook also hinted at those comments that people wondered why Usher would marry a woman who looks like Tameka ( which surprised and irked me that people thought she should be lighter or look like a video girl)..
i was thinking regarding the cooking is it because she is more normal looking--like you could see her at the mall?? and because she is more "normal looking" does that mean she BETTER know how to cook?
lol..im rambling
@ uzenzile:
"why cant it be that HE got her to marry him?"
cause he's Usher. lol. nah for real tho, i think your ideal is a good one, just not ALWAYS how it goes down or must go down for 2 people to be in love. someone a woman really does pursue a man hard, sometimes vice versa. but in all serious, come on now, he's USHER. lol. kidding. but seriously, seriously when u have a man that is in the spotlight getting the P thrown at him from every angle, it's reasonable to believe i think that a woman has to be special and catch his eye, if not simply because he probably has women showcasing for him 24/7. i doubt (due to his celebrity) that he has to showcase for anyone, they already sorta know him since he's such a public figure. on the other hand i'm sure he had to win her over or prove himself in some way. every man gotta prove to a woman at some point -- not always via physical monogamy -- that she's special in order for her to seriously consider marrying him.
"is it because she is more normal looking--like you could see her at the mall?? and because she is more "normal looking" does that mean she BETTER know how to cook?"
it just means that normal black people that I KNOW, know how to cook. it's ABNORMAL not to know how to cook, which ironically is normalized in the lala land we live in. thus the surprise/glee that she looks normal, rather than resembling the madness that is american (black or white) pop culture.
"I dont mean any harm, ElectricLday....and i probably shouldnt say anything but I always smart a little when I read a comment similiar to this. I wanna get married and cook greens and grits (and I will fry chicken and bacon to go with respectively...even if I dont do the meat thing). I look forward to finding the time to be domestic and taking care of someone.
but should getting someone to marry you be a like sport or an audition/interview for a job....why cant it be that HE got her to marry him?"
Co.sign.
And seriously, muva-effas really need to stop bragging about not knowing how to cook. It's not cute, it's sad!
danielle....I agree totally. You know how to eat..you should know how to cook. Ive come across women who say they cant cook like its a badge of honor and vice versa lol...its a life skill people
and the comments about why the woman always has to be the hoop-jumper wore meant to be general ( because the peculiar thing that is celebrity warps reality by definiton)..i could have been clearer...
but even in real life the power dynamic is insanely inbalanced and that is what i have a problem with...naive or not...its one thing for it to be true/fact and another for women themselves(not talking about ELL bc i dont know her) to perpetuate it....sometimes you gotta speak things in to existence...say it to you believe it....just my thoughts..."aint nothing that im saying law"
( sorry for the bad grammar Danielle, lol)
to be all the way honest, in all my relationships i've always felt like the woman had something to prove to me. i've never felt like i've had something to prove to a woman. maybe it's the way the boys in my family were raised -- very self confident and praised. and i'm not necessarily saying its right or wrong, just the way it was/is in my experience.
maybe it's because men don't have that biological ticking bomb (i kid!) i mean, clock pushing them. maybe it's because men are a more scarce resource than women. i wish i could figure this one out but i just got theories and "maybes it's-es", no facts.
Interesting convo and no harm felt Uzenzile.
Still:
"but should getting someone to marry you be a like sport or an audition/interview for a job....why cant it be that HE got her to marry him?"
You'll have to excuse me because I definitely don't see it as a sport, but it certainly is a challenge and like Achali mentioned, Usher is a special case. He could BUY a wife, who'd probably bullish him the whole way along, but I mean he can actually PURCHASE whatever type of woman that he wants (not literally but via THINGS). And even taking the money out of it, the celebrity status is enough to bring hoards of groupie-loves who REALLY are trying to become wifey and will DO or SAY whatever to get that position. Moreover, as was mentioned, "getting him to wife HER" implies that there was something about HER that appealed to him in such a powerful way that he was willing to give up the single-Blk-man-in-his-prime lifestyle to settle down with an older, divorced mother of three(?). I mean those are typically 3 strikes, Usher or not. I know a lot of single Blk males who might shy away from a woman such as Tameka for their wife. I also know women who don't want to marry men with children, or who have been married, they want to start FRESH on the SAME level.
So in THAT sense, that's a shout out to her because its not about CATCHING or TRAPPING a man, but more so having your ish together in a way that makes that man want to GET with you. The ultimate display of wanting to "be" with a person is settling down in a marriage-like manner (paper or no).
And Usher is bascially saying MUVA-EF what the world thinks, what folks SAY (about you, or ME being to young, whatever): Imma WIFE you. Plus, that's just my lil Philly lingo coming out I guess, its like if a man "WIFES" a woman, that means that she's the truth! Its the ultimate goal than to be "Wifed"...that demonstrates your innerworth in some ways I guess.
And honestly, I get that feeling from a lot of professional (college-educated "successful") women. NONE of that stuff matters, its like "yeah, career: means to an END" (end meaning Marriage, Family, QueenMother status). That's like a rite of passage almost. Marriage and/or Motherhood. So alot of Sisters (and Brothers I'm sure) feel a bit stifled, like we can't progress to the next step. Especially in this indivudalistic get-rich-die-tryin make-that-corporate-money house-and-home-be-damned kinda world! Moreover, marriage is so rare in a lot of places (due to plain old numbers, and also the option to NOT marry--a new phenomenon).
"Down with this woman-prove-yourself-worthy-so-that-I-can-grant-you-the -pleasure-of-my-marrying-you mentality!"
well...
"to be all the way honest, in all my relationships i've always felt like the woman had something to prove to me. i've never felt like i've had something to prove to a woman. maybe it's the way the boys in my family were raised -- very self confident and praised. and i'm not necessarily saying its right or wrong, just the way it was/is in my experience."
Uzenzile I definitely feel you in THEORY but i think Achali brings us to the reality of the situation, and I don't think he's anywhere OUTSIDE the norm. I think Brothers are groomed to select a wife and Sisters are groomed to prepare themselves for the picking!
Is that wrong? I'm not sure I think its more natural based on so many world cultures. Does that devalue women? I don't think so, its kind of like a MAJOR solidification of one's worth! ("GURL, HE wants to MARRY ME! lol!" as opposed to "Hope he wants to marry me"). There's a little more self-assuredness in the former. I am THAT Lady...Homie is SMITTEN...more LingOL w/the home gurls!
Kinda how a lot of African languages have this thing where a woman or man becomes "such-and-such's parent" once they have children. People start to identify them based on their offspring, kind of an ode to their existence and abilities (especially when the child displays excellence).
"i was thinking regarding the cooking is it because she is more normal looking--like you could see her at the mall?? and because she is more "normal looking" does that mean she BETTER know how to cook?"
very insightful. I think this is a discussion in and of itself. There may in fact be pressure among "normal" women to overcompensate for so-called "beauty" in order to stand out. I met a dude once who couldn't believe that my friends and I all worked, that we paid are own bills, etc. I don't think we do those things to overcompensate necessarily, its just kind of like, we don't often come accross the Brother who values us in the way they might a more so-called "beautiful" woman (based on the "video-girl" standard). So like, we're not used to the special treatment because it ain't an option. Some men ACTUALLY think we're "so strong" and seemingly "self-sufficient" therefore, we must not "need" a traditional male/female setting when in fact, we KILLING time till we get there (watching that biological ticking bomb uh..i mean clock! lol!) We just make moves and keep it moving. Which is why Tameka stands as a testament to the weary Sister...not because she snagged Usher (though thats part of it)...moreso because she represents the often overlooked Sister: Divorcee, mother of 3(?), brown-skinned-ladaaaay! And so that's like a DOPE thing and certainly means that she got some thangs with her and encourages a lot of Sisters to keep making moves and the right thing will come to you. Hakuna Matata.
Funny too cuz the men that I've dated always have homies who want to know if I "have any friends" because they "can't seem to find a GOOD woman." But I usually discover that they seek out and usually date one type of woman (of the video persuasion) who tends to KNOW that she can get away with certain ish and ultimately GETS
AWAY with certain ish! lol! suckers!
These women recognize that a lot of Brothers view them as a prize and oftentimes get off being lazy, trifling, etc. Homie might complain, but he got him a "BAD" chick right? So he's not going ANYWHERE. Might even have him some pretty-haired babies too! (sarcastic)
So a lot of Brothers (more than I'd like to admit but it IS what it IS) seek OUT the video-looking Sister just for her looks alone. [Of course that doesn't mean that if a Sister happens to look like she SHOULD be in a video, she IS that KIND of woman (another SAD phenomenon but a REAL thought pattern among a lot of Brothers who think every Sister of a golden complexion is gonna be their vixen). Whew...imma quit there. Too much to think about (that's that damn slavery 2008)]
"but even in real life the power dynamic is insanely inbalanced and that is what i have a problem with...naive or not...its one thing for it to be true/fact and another for women themselves(not talking about ELL bc i dont know her) to perpetuate it....sometimes you gotta speak things in to existence...say it to you believe it"
I think it depends on the cultural sphere. I have experienced the power dynamic under more race-based circumstances than anything else. And it may reflect how i was raised which is moreso that you are a powerful being, step into the world-its-yours and like, prepare yourself to be somebody's wife! None of that needs to involve you reducing who you are, in fact, the brighter you shine your light, the more appealing you will be. (Of course reality makes it a bit more complicated and while the Great Umi might have been thinking positively, I find that bright lights can make folks "turn awaaaaaay"--like how E. Badu sang it in Orange Moon).
Nonetheless, it certainly isn't my intention to perpetuate "insane imbalance" at all. In fact, I'm ALL about the BALANCE itself. The woman-hear-me-roar syndrome (not referring to anyone here, but just oevrall in the world) that a lot of 90's and New millenium women are being spoon-fed can be dangerous if its not put in context.
Have us searching for things that aren't realistic or hating Brothers for doing things that are just normal.
Some folks are so afraid of misogyny that the natural swing of things starts looking like male-dominance. Sometimes, that's just not what it is.
"to be all the way honest, in all my relationships i've always felt like the woman had something to prove to me. i've never felt like i've had something to prove to a woman. maybe it's the way the boys in my family were raised -- very self confident and praised. and i'm not necessarily saying its right or wrong, just the way it was/is in my experience.
every man ive ever met and dated was raised this way..of course its good to praise your sons and make sure they know their worth....even more so bc of the outside madness ( and sometimes inside too)that makes them targets....that I understand and will do when I have my own sons...
the problem i have is that often there is a lack of balance to use that term again and the men go forth in to the world with a tremendous sense of entitlement and athe idea that there isnt much they need to do ..not much change they have to go through for anyone cuz they're basically perfect.....
in my experience..that does not a relationship make...for me anyway...i know tons of women in my life who accept what they accept because they have been taught A man is better than NO man..
and while I definitely hear my ovaries talking to me at night because my eggs are tired of being suspended in meiosis I and I want to be paired up and walking thru life with somebody eventually( not anybody)...Im not okay with having a life where one partner sees themselves as more highly valued than the other and thus has less to prove and less to which he has to acquiesce...
lol...ya'll i know how it really works in real life and i hear what Electric lady and achali are saying...those are commonly held truths that I respect...even if they are not truths I want for myself
and just to say, Im definitely not the roaring-she-woman/i dont need a man cuz my feminism -holds- me- at night- and walks- along -the beach with -me in- Zanzibar ( no offense to feminists or womanists or any derivations)types....even though I was raised ( by direct and indirect examples) to suppress my own thoughts and emotions and wants if they are in opposition to those of the man in my life...its not something I have been able to do across the board
im not talking about normal compromise and cooperation---because that goes out the window or better yet was never in the house when one partner comes in to it thinking aint nothing he got to prove to NOBODY lol!
ladies and gents...i know practice and reality trump theory in many many cases and i do play along as much as i can stand...in the two really significant relationships ( the others were child's play)that Ive had its been the men who brought up the idea of marriage...( actually before i would have thought to do it myself in both cases) so I know time/energy/the universe is screaming to me what is really good and that there will be no great big paradigm shift
but i can take idealistic living in theory world for now...and at this point im not prepared to let my ideals (intended use of the word) go....and i know you gotta move and change and somethings you just have to accept...I am not ready lol (as a couple of nice well-raised and highly praised young black gentlemen could tell ya)
also just to add..i dont feel the need to switch roles ( i think they serve their purpose for the most part) ..i just believe that its natural to feel that the proving should be equal
@ ell:
"having your ish together in a way that makes that man want to GET with you.
i agree. i know in my RGB/Afrocentric stage (lol, i kid, kinda) that i was so obsessed with the idea of getting married that i'd mold a woman into my soul mate -- in my mind. so i'd be talking to her about marriage and babies and we ain't known eachother but less than a year. then all the things that i don't like come out and i was too scared/nice to break it off. so it kinda lingered. and then when the person doesn't have any complaints about u but ur harboring all of these complaints about them, u feel like all the critique is coming from u. so u feel like everything that's wrong here is the other person's shortcomings. and u yearn for someone who makes u drool (mentally, spiritually, physically) and makes u wanna chase/wife/bag them...
"Kinda how a lot of African languages have this thing where a woman or man becomes "such-and-such's parent" once they have children. People start to identify them based on their offspring, kind of an ode to their existence and abilities (especially when the child displays excellence)."
this is a good example of the natural humility that community context provides... it might not seem fair to the individual child to not have her own identity for some time, and be in the shadow of her parents, but in this context it makes sense right? i mean, if ur parents are actually somebody in the community. if ur parents are wack, then u might lobby folks to stop calling u by their name. lol. but even the fact that in a community context u'd have someone to LOBBY TO is deep. we ain't hardly got that no mo.
"These women recognize that a lot of Brothers view them as a prize and oftentimes get off being lazy, trifling, etc. Homie might complain, but he got him a "BAD" chick right? So he's not going ANYWHERE. Might even have him some pretty-haired babies too! (sarcastic)"
i've been guilty of thinking i am someone's prize. but like i said before, in retrospect, women sometimes will sort of allow me to accend to this level because they don't critique me! are they scared of scaring me away? i've been trained to critique. so i'm not scared of scaring anyone away. so i think we're getting at something here. i mean it could be anyone it could be lauryn hill mixed with stacy dash... lol, for arguments sake, and if we're in a relationship and i see room for improvement i'm sharing! i'm not scared of her running away. becasue i've been taught that WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR is the woman who is not afraid of critique. so if she's afriad of it, no matter how banging she is, she's not what i'm looking for anyway. i don't come across too many women who have that same self-security about getting what they want. and i'll admit our society makes those women who do that out to be stuck up or something. but i do have a close friend who is able to do that. and she does it with alot of sugar on the top (which helps defuse the "strong black woman sydrome sterotype" and then she is able to critique and still make u feel loved. Men want to be challenged. And that means having a woman add to your life via critique (like a mama might do) but do it in a way that strokes our egos... haha, i know the ultimate challenge. It is a weakness u could call it, in men that we want critique but don't want the sting. Whereas I am often great at critiquing but not that good at putting sugar on things myself. But if i had to choose i'm taking the critique/challenger with sting over the no crique/challenge at all.
@uzenzile:
"the problem i have is that often there is a lack of balance to use that term again and the men go forth in to the world with a tremendous sense of entitlement and athe idea that there isnt much they need to do ..not much change they have to go through for anyone cuz they're basically perfect..."
a sense of entitlement does not arrogance make, either tho. so entitlement as ur using it is not always bad. i AM entitled to have an energy/companion that i feel matches mine. i will try within reason to attain that. and i will understand and be at peace if i don't. like i said what's unfair is that women with that same entitlement often get labled arrogant and stuck up. but they shouldn't then rid themselves of entitlement, we have to change/correct the perception of stuck up via increased understanding. like i've been told often that i come across as stuck up. and so i've tried to soften my outer shell while maintaining my sense of entitlements, or what i'd call standards. but both sides have to learn that u really can't judge a book by its cover and that just because someone rubs you the wrong way doesn't mean that the "spirit world" is telling u to never talk to this person again. that getting to know someone, no matter how in tune we think we are... takes time and a desire to actually know people. so how come instead of getting rid of entitlement, we maybe could instead encourage a healthy sense of it, and also encourage eachother not to run at the first stiff of it because we automatically call it arrogance. can we take the time to get to know people? and even then instead of juding someone, why not leave the bridge intact for the sake of getting to a point where we can offer loving critique so that we can actually start to make eachother better, rather than abandoning and cutting off the folks who we don't need or want around. in dating or what qualifies as "courting" nowadays (i.e. at a social space) we ought to be less on edge about "rushing or flushing" people who come into our space. if ur tryna step to me and i'm not attracted to you, i should be able to communicate that (the sting) while still engaging u and letting u know i'm open to get to know u as a member of my community (the sugar). i think then both men and women might start to have a different idea of "normal" social interaction. attraction is normal. speaking on it is normal. acting on mutual attraction is normal. attraction being one sided is normal. speaking on THAT is normal. when we see these things as normal we're more free to say and act how we feel and not fear rejection or ackwardness... because we confident that even if we don't get what we want out of stepping up, at least we know it won't break the bridge of community. that potential should always be left on the table and i think that context is what can serve to empower us to be more vulnerable and honest in our actions and words without being scared of being judged and osctracized or abandoned.
first off...im pretty sure i dont know you in real life but some of them comments seem like you been talking to my last boyfriend! LOL!...nah...its just funny how much the same we humans can be. I agree with a lot of the points you make...especially the pushing people out when they dont fit the role you want them to fit...by far my second biggest challenge ( the first being the vulnerability thing you talk about sometimes)...
however....things are often get very convulted in practice though...for example a man or woman might meet a person....get to know them...realize that they;re not all that sure it could work..keep going with getting more involved... continue to ignore the doubt that was there in the beginning and then exit from the situation with the other person not being privy to any of the doubt or concerns...
ideally, two people could talk about stuff upfront and place all that on the table and im not saying that people shouldnt date or get involved with people they are 100% sure about..but what I am saying is that you owe it to yourself and that person to be clear about what things are for you and what they are not...instead of being comfortable having somebody there for whatever purpose they serve..ive been on both sides of the equation to be frank.
so if a man will say to me hey, im not not interested in you like that instead of trying to keep fires burning, there is no problem because nobody is mislead or confused or thinking its all great
"i've been guilty of thinking i am someone's prize. but like i said before, in retrospect, women sometimes will sort of allow me to accend to this level because they don't critique me! are they scared of scaring me away? i've been trained to critique. so i'm not scared of scaring anyone away"
but you allow yourself to do these things above all right? you know when your head has swelled right lol? where does the personal responsibility come in?? I understand it ...feeling like somebody's sunshine can be intoxicating but I think its a disservice to both parties though..because one party is being tolerated and the other is merely tolerating when yall both could be sunshining for someone.
lol @ the tangents from talking about grits and greens
Well put Achali.
I agree. Its funny too cuz i have SO many male friends, Brothers who I truly feel reflect the beautiful essence of life, you know? Just had to adopt one as my Brother, cuz that's just what he is now. Period.
And its wild trying to explain that to someone that I might be dating, cuz they're like "Mmmmm HMMMMMM! WHAT-EVER!!" But like, that's always been the most important part to me, the whole extended-family aspect. Maintaining that community is essential.
And it also removes some of the ego that can be associated with dating. (You know, "Does he/she like me? If not, how come? What's HIS/HER problem, he/she doesn't understand the magnificence of ME?")
Some folks ASSume that a person of the opposite sex HAS to be attracted to them, without realizing that a person can LOVE another person just because of who they ARE (minus the sexual intimacy, relationship-status, etc.). So female/male friendships are the ultimate test because they promote balance, they force us to engage buried aspects of ourselves and really prepare us for our mates in the long run.
e.g. A Brother might cook with his female freinds but might not do that with male friends or around his woman (maybe because SHE does the cooking). So in that space, with the female friends he really has an opportunity to touch sides of himself that he may not get to do in his everyday life with his woman or even his friends.
And the same for women, you know? Hangin with guys without the pressure of being in a relationship or having to DO for somebody is a positive character-building experience.
Oh yeah and the critiquing thing...
lol!
i think women ARE afraid to critque sometimes for a variety of reasons.
I've always been a "guy's girl" so I've been able to observe and get a sense for what dudes HATE (and my logic used to be: arrrrighty don't do THOSE things and you're cool! lol! Back in my amateur days that is!) What I've gone on to realize is that no matter how "cool" you think you're being, no matter how understanding you might be, a lot of Brothers STILL think you're being extra! It could just be because men and women are different and i guess the chick in me kept on slipping out!
Either way, I have made the mistake of having little to no requirements (like education, money, criminal background...NONE) and found that folks STILL saw me as wanting to much! Like they STILL felt like I was asking for too much!
So I decided I can't win for losing and better just figure out what I want/need and roll with that. And make sure that I am willing to reasonably accomodate my mate too.
My point is that I was often afraid to require things in a relationship (for fear of losing my DUDE, God forBID!). And then I've only JUST realized I didn't even know what I wanted or what to look for in a mate. I THOUGHT I did, but I really didn't! Now, I feel closer to knowing what I need/want (much of it through trial and error).
Yeah and then some Sisters critique so MUCH that its like COME ON!
So that genuine "I love you so here it is" thing between two people is just so powerful and wonderful and NECESSARY!
yup!
or rather the only problem is dealing with your hurt/rejection instead of deception compounding that
"however....things are often get very convulted in practice though...for example a man or woman might meet a person....get to know them...realize that they;re not all that sure it could work..keep going with getting more involved... continue to ignore the doubt that was there in the beginning and then exit from the situation with the other person not being privy to any of the doubt or concerns..."
So true Uzenzile!
yes, that's the trickiest part knowing WHEN to exit and still trying to maintain an amiable relationship. Even when said other person is QUITE privy! They just not trying to end it! That's the hard part and tough love works best in my view.
this is where i think the conversation turns towards a critique of monogamy in my opinion, because most men are "greedy" or better but "needy", at least i know i can be.
and so there are certain things you get from some people that other people don't have in their personality. but then that person who doesn't have that, has something else that attracts you to them.
the dilemma is letting go of something you know you're attracted to just because you're not attracted to the whole package.
most men i know struggle with that cause they'd rather keep all these different puzzle pieces around that, together, fulfill them fully.
i mean this goes for male/male friendships, relationships too. and if you can understand it in that context maybe that helps to understand it in the male/female friendship/relationship context.
then again some people (women, and some men) i know tend to be like you said more accepting, and here's another one... maybe it's because they are sold on the romantic idea of "soul mate". so they'll tend to tell you that someone who doesn't fulfill them 100% is acceptable because.. then some form of an "at least" comment will follow... right?
i'm curious, which one are you?
cause when i talk about lingering, it's not like i'm not diggin someone at all, it's merely that i have DOUBTS, which is natural. i'm saying that i am vocal about my critque, not necessarily that i am always vocal about my doubts.
i guess you could say being vocal about my critques is a way to see if something will change that will make my doubts go away.
you're suggesting that the two actions are incompatible somehow?
my head is not what i'm talking about being swelled. i'm talking about me being self-confident, and honest in the flaws i see in others (and myself), not afraid to voice those critiques BUT ALSO being open to being critiqued myself, and not receiving any critique and instead getting 100% acceptance, which makes me feel uncomfortable because here is someone who accepts me 100% but there are SOME THINGS about that person that i don't think i could accept which means i'm not reciprocating that 100% acceptance.
then i just find it hard to believe that someone can really accept and be attracted to everything about a person so i can only assume that the person is just uncomfortable of critiquing me or scared of losing me, which in turn, is unattractive.
"Some folks ASSume that a person of the opposite sex HAS to be attracted to them, without realizing that a person can LOVE another person just because of who they ARE (minus the sexual intimacy, relationship-status, etc.)"
so true...my deepest friendship is with a guy I met in genetics at HU...its loving intimate PLantonic relationship that continues to teach me how I need to be in other relationships..so yes I concur 1100% that those kinds of relationships are neccessary templates.
i tend to be dense when it comes to picking up on whether or not a dude is feeling me so I never assume he MUST be feeling me lol--and again I agree with you on that, ElectricLadylike ( is your name in reference to the Jimi Hendrix song?)
@ achali,
i may be misunderstanding you on some things or not coming across clear enough..lets see
"most men i know struggle with that cause they'd rather keep all these different puzzle pieces around that, together, fulfill them fully."
yes!! this has been my experience and my whole thing is that there is nothing wrong with that in general...it gets to be interesting when those different puzzle pieces are unaware of the fact that they are one of many...if there is honesty about that then its cool and something that the person has to decide if they want to continue with...and i think everyone is entitled to be up on whats going on...but i know a lot of men disagree and say its their business..that i cant understand bc a relationship ( potential or established) is supposed to be about open-ness so i never understand this kind of thing...i happen to tell someone if im seeing someone else or interested( no lie) and be straight with them! how much is there to lose when you're not sure its worthing keeping anyway
and so that does mean that you voice your doubts along with your critique...why not?
"then again some people (women, and some men) i know tend to be like you said more accepting, and here's another one... maybe it's because they are sold on the romantic idea of "soul mate". so they'll tend to tell you that someone who doesn't fulfill them 100% is acceptable because.. then some form of an "at least" comment will follow... right?"
i dont subscribe to the notion of soul mates in the traditional sense of the word...meaning there is one person who will complete me and will be complement in every aspect...i believe that there's a gang of guys i could potentially have something real with depending on the circumstances being conducive to that...my best friend is the closest ive come to in terms of feeling like someone "knows" me but nothing is perfect and im not looking for that...im looking for something that motivates me to stay because i say forget this way too easily
"i'm curious, which one are you?"
im not sure what you mean by this question..could be me being dense but i didnt quite get it
"then i just find it hard to believe that someone can really accept and be attracted to everything about a person so i can only assume that the person is just uncomfortable of critiquing me or scared of losing me, which in turn, is unattractive."
co-sign on this. i dont expect this and in the one situation that came close to it where for the guy it didnt much seem to matter that he probably wasnt all that happy or connected bc we differed on all the big things..but he wanted to be married....never woulda worked bc i dont want to feel like that and like u said its not attractive.
the swollen head comment is in reference to the idea of someone allowing you to ascend to high heights ...i just think that i would want to be clear about what was happening...talk about it...i just dont see why the lopsidedness should continue
in the end the dynamic i have with my best friend is what i want in my mate..somebody who tells it like it is and aint scared of the consequences of telling the truth
even if my I may cringe while i hear it...the sting goes away..eventually and you learn something or not lol
well let's be honest, MOST people would be heartbroken if they are really diggin u (all, 100 percent and all -- you didn't mention how much this dude u told was feelin u or if he "made u his prize" yet)
so if u tell them ur interested in someone else u risk breaking their heart.
a relationship is about openness, yes, but also about tact and kindness. plus blurting out everything thats on ur mind is not necessarily honesty.
if i knew a woman would be cool (meaning, that she wasn't busy making me her "prize") it'd be much easier to share other interests, etc.
which is why i find it hard to even really dig a woman until i've been able to have a serious conversation about these things. there is just too much liability, shit, and i be tryna minimize my risk. lol. i hate drama and emotional confusion. it's annoying. ha.
i've voiced my doubts before and i got schooled on how that was cruel and selfish and not necessarily being "honest". u say u'd want that anyway? but either ur the exception to the rule, or... no offense... you're lying to urself.
my women friends are ready to be treated like my male friends in terms of frankness because they aren't emotionally invested like a woman i'm dating would be.
but women i date aren't ready to be treated like that. they just can't handle it, simple and plain. and i understand why, so i'm not knocking it, just explaining that i've made that mistake and hurt feelings. my nature is to be brutally honest with my observations and while my friends love me for it, women i date seriously, tend to hate it cause a lot of my observations when i get to be so close to someone, are about them. little things that annoy me, i'm obsessive compulsive and a perfectionist in some ways about constant improvement and the idea that someone is never as good as they can possibly be. got it from my pops probably. women i've dated can't handle that.
about the soul mate thing, im asking... even if u don't subscribe to the romantic notion of it in the literal sense, are u of the group that is "at peace" [key phrase] with choosing to be with someone exclusively that doesn't fulfill u 100%. i'm not at peace with that, yet, ever, who knows. in other words, even tho u know someone can't fulfill you 100% are u still ready to be with one person anyway, knowing what u know?
Hmmmm...Decoding Monogamy!
Yeah I find that there's a WHOLE lot beyond the surface, you know?
Like the "soul mate" thing is not realistic. Soul MATES however, are way more along the lines of reality!
And that's cool...cuz I don't think you ever STOP loving folks anyway...but you can certainly put a pause on the physical stuff. And sometimes cut down on the emotional draining too (because that can interfere with the moving on part!)
That's all to say that I think Damn DISNEY! I'm telling you that T.V. is the devil I SWEAR!
It really has made a mess of our sense of reality. Prince Charming?
Really though? lol!
So once we get rid of all that Hollywood junk they've been pumping us with (happily-ever-after and whatnot!) I think we have a fighting chance!
That's my goal, anyway...trying to work towards that...
And YES, most certainly THAT Jimi song ("Have you beeeeeeeeen...")!
Man, that R&B just came right out of him on that track! One of my favs! Gonna remake that hopefully (ode to joy! laughingtomyself)
Well...
I don't think I'll get 100% of everything, but I can take 100% of a couple of things and like 70% of some others, you know?
Its really about co-existing and compromise.
Co-Existing: being able to share your lives together (ummm...art.culture.politics.music...lol! The Liberator rubric maybe? lmao!). i don't know, whatever is most important. Just knowing we're on the same path and/or we can progress in life along the same lines and in the same direction.
Compromise: being willing to BEND just a little (not OVER backwards, but just a little).
I find that some folks don't even think they should be growing or changing PERIOD, so they can't fathom the notion of growing WITH someone or opening their mind to change WITH a person (not for...but in conjunction WITH that person).
I think it also comes down to your energy (cosmic sign if you will). I'm a Gemini, so I can make sense of almost anything! Which oftentimes ends up being a disaster! We can work through and intellectualize ANY-THING and sometimes, I had to take my analytical side OUT of it and just see stuff for what it IS, you know? Without the fluff and flowers!
AND THEN, we tend to also be VERY flexible: with time, money ANY-THING. So you could tell me you're going to go fly a kite, I'm like, okay cool beans! My criteria is pretty simple: If it isn't going to harm anyone else or you, why NOT! Problem IS, I've begun to see that folks be WAY out there and I'm like, cool for you but not for ME if Imma be on this ride WITH you. But my NATURE is so open-minded that it takes me a while to grasp that (although I been learned and am rising above that inherent flaw! "Slowly but Surely..." as Wayne Wonder sang it! Waaaayne WHERE ya AT!!!!)
So our energy has A LOT to do with how we interact with folks.
Last thing: it IS hard to be completely honest with someone if/when what you say can hurt them.
Still, I think its important to be honest as far as "I'm not feeling this" and explain why. But I mean if its something that person can't change (cuz your VOICE annoys me! lol!) well then thats something you can keep out of the honesty session. But if its something like "you have an attitude and it makes me uncomfortable" well then THAT's perfectly acceptable....if they can't handle it, they need to reflect a bit I guess (besides, more than likely they KNOW they do too!)
not to mention that my mother sets the bar pretty high as for what an african woman ought to be.
and i look at my parents and see the pinnacle of a lifetime relationship, the hardships they've gon thru and all...
so these women got stiff competition in my mind. which is something i try to minimize when being open, but it lingers in the back of my mind nevertheless.
i ain't tryna have my pops have a better woman than me! kidding, kinda... lol
LOL at "ur voice annoys me"
aaaaaahahaha
've voiced my doubts before and i got schooled on how that was cruel and selfish and not necessarily being "honest". u say u'd want that anyway? but either ur the exception to the rule, or... no offense... you're lying to urself.
no offense taken...but let me share why i want to be or at least think i want to be told the truth ( cuz i aint ever experienced real honesty like that and cant say for sure how imma take it till I do)...doubt and critiques...i meet this guy when i get to medical school...he is a year ahead of me..we click insanely!!...religion, how we want to rear kids and where...what kind of medicine we want to practice...how we feel about our people and what the hell we need to do...analyzing racism and other isms and being eye to eye on crazy stuff...it was overwhelming and refreshing and him talking about marriage and babies and me saying mmm hmmm baby that sounds good...lets get our MDs...practice an mix of traditional and modern medicine...raise some kids who know something about something and who dont get the dazed look if you mention Fannie Lou Hamer...love and support each other ..mmmm hmmm...all that...he is saying and im saying it and thinking ...all along this dude is having SERIOUS doubts!!!! SERIOUS and from the beginning...while im thinking this shit is magic...it aint all clicking for him and hadnt really since the beginning i find it ...and when does he start to let me know this( cuz the actions speak before the mouth does) its months later when he couldnt push his doubts away any more...so months later im realizing that I wasnt seeing what i was seeing at all
and yes having him tell me that in Septmeber instead of March of the next year woulda been super! sure it would have hurt my feelings but why allow me to beleive we on the same page when we were just in the same book! I could have chosen what i wanted to do!! i wasnt given that choice. Honesty gives you that choice. Im not going to be everyman's cup of tea...be real early before feelings change
this is the first man i saw myself marrying for real...a man i would willing take study breaks to make homemade soup for cuz he had a cold ( which i didnt mind and im not that i regret any of it or feel like there was no return on the investment lol and he did his part too...a-bringing me dinner that he cooked in-the -library-type) so maybe its the residual pain of that...but dagnammbit i wanna be in the know...i know this thing is risk and that there are no guarantees...but it can be minimized with some honesty....so yes this is the conversation I have when I meet someone---"I need you to talk to me clearly and I will do the same" ( and ive had the opportunity to do that recently by by being honest with a man --consequences yep but I dont regret it)
sorry to subject yall to my personal drama/life story here at the liberator but hey:-)
and to the guy for whom i was enough( supposedly bc he coulda been hoping i would change) even though so many things woulda been challenge ( like to raise kids in his religion and to disagree on basic life philosophies)...i let that go..and we're still friends...well the best that we can be...he's getting married..im happy for him and friends with the fiancee(sp)
"are u of the group that is "at peace" [key phrase] with choosing to be with someone exclusively that doesn't fulfill u 100%."
im blessed to have that best friend whom i can talk to for 8 hours straight about everything and this has come up...yes I am of that group...im NOT expecting the 100% fulfillment at all ..i think if I chose to get down with polyandry then I could have 100% of what I want and need...but thats not in the plans for now(smile)..
even with the medschool guy who had the doubts and didnt tell me for months ( and yes know some times the doubts work themselves out and you can move forward with that person but still tactful honesty can be done---cuz i agree that its not an easy pill to swallow) there were things there I was willing to accept and things that were missing that I was okay with because he was/is that awesome all around
"Still, I think its important to be honest as far as "I'm not feeling this" and explain why. But I mean if its something that person can't change (cuz your VOICE annoys me! lol!) well then thats something you can keep out of the honesty session"
but does it have to be that way? i met a guy a while back in Jan..getting to know him has been limited because of the hellish semester but from what Ive learned verbally and non is that there are things that would have me pulling my hair out ( and I WORK hard two-strand twisting lol)...so I tell him that I dont think a relationship between the two of us would work because of differences...i elaborat..i dont have to say because you sound lazy and complacent...so im not saying I wanna hear R., girl, you a mess and yo hair is nappy and I cant get with that and you talk too much...a man can be honest with me and say that tactfully and still get the gist of it across..
are ya'll saying thats too naive of me to say i want to be told i talk too much???:-)
one more thing..im basing my need for honest majorly on this one experience cuz ive never felt like that before ( sob story--violins playing!!) and so maybe thats part of grown-upness to which I have yet to ascend.....i know i cant avoid pain on honesty alone though..but you try something new right?
share, critique me cuz im open to learn.
love reading ya'lls comments
damn, i thought that was his mama.
"why allow me to beleive we on the same page when we were just in the same book!"
cause he probably thought u might change his mind if he was patient.
"i know this thing is risk and that there are no guarantees...but it can be minimized with some honesty"
definitely much more of a risk for yall than for us. u have time to fight, we don't really risk wasting time as much as u do. for us marriage is the risk. lol. cause we might get stuck.
"sorry to subject yall to my personal drama/life story here at the liberator but hey:-)"
oh no need for that!!! come on now!!!
"are ya'll saying thats too naive of me to say i want to be told i talk too much???:-)"
i guess i'm saying from my experience, it's sorta either ur open to it all or not. cause having to filter yourself around the people u love sucks. i mean i tell my brothers everything that comes to mind, that's because we know that our brotherhood is first and foremost and all other hurt feelings are secondary to that. but many (most i've dated) women are different. they aren't willing to be on that level with u until u throwing a ring on that finger. but i ain't throwin the ring on that finger until i can be free and my whole self around u and know that ur really okay with that, and no better way to know that someone is truly okay with honest critique than for them to throw some honest critique ur way.
critiquing also takes a high level of self-security because u have to be ready to receive what u give. i'm ready.
like i said if i knew a woman was really cool with it i'd have no problem being honest and open... maybe that's why being friends first helps cause u got that "phila" (brotherly/sisterly) love... first which is less fickle.
for me and friends i've had this conversation with trying to decode when its right to be blunt and when it's not is just too much thought and energy to be worth the hassle. lol
it would seem this issue is not a new one. lol...
--
The Supremes, You Keep Me Hangin’ On:
Set me free, why don’t cha babe
Get out my life, why don’t cha babe
’cause you don’t really love me
You just keep me hangin’ on
You don’t really need me
But you keep me hangin’ on
Why do you keep a coming around
Playing with my heart?
Why don’t you get out of my life
And let me make a new start?
Let me get over you
The way you’ve gotten over me
Set me free, why don’t cha babe
Let me be, why don’t cha babe
’cause you don’t really love me
You just keep me hangin’ on
Now you don’t really want me
You just keep me hangin’ on
You say although we broke up
You still wanna be just friends
But how can we still be friends
When seeing you only breaks my heart again
And there ain’t nothing I can do about it
Woo, set me free, why don’t cha babe
Woo, get out my life, why don’t cha babe
Set me free, why don’t cha babe
Get out my life, why don’t cha babe
You claim you still care for me
But your heart and soul needs to be free
Now that you’ve got your freedom
You wanna still hold on to me
You don’t want me for yourself
So let me find somebody else hey!
Why don’t you be a man about it
And set me free
Now you don’t care a thing about me
You’re just using me
Go on, get out, get out of my life
And let me sleep at night
’cause you don’t really love me
You just keep me hangin’ on...
You Keep Me Hangin’ On
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXYm7PLkew
right:-)
"Let me get over you
The way you’ve gotten over me"
men do this sooo easily...i want that gene next time around
"not to mention that my mother sets the bar pretty high as for what an african woman ought to be."
Where are your parents from achali? I've always thought you had a dope last name...
although im tryna keep a cover... :) i'll tell.. my mom is from east africa.
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