[BUMPED: great discussion]
(One Big Reason) Why I’m Voting for Barack Obama by Susan TallBear: Though there are plenty of reasons to vote for this intelligent and inspirational HUMAN BEING, there is one reason that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind. It has nothing to do with his policies, his eloquence, his experience or his basic all-around hotness. No, I am awed by something else. Something that maybe hasn’t occurred to a lot of people out there. I am voting for him because this man loves his wife. I’m voting for him because he loves his children. I’m voting for him because he is the contradiction to the story that is told so often about men of color.
See, there is a hard truth that is faced by those of us who, out of loyalty (or lunacy, you decide), don’t go over to the other side. Those of us who think men of color are more beautiful, more attractive and more deserving of our love. Those of us who believe our men are capable of being loving and caring and respectful of us, if only we just try hard enough and give them enough chances. Chance after chance to just “treat us right”. Truth is, in our communities, too many of our men are absent. We all know where they are. And when they are around too many of them are engaged in activities that are not conducive to raising a family. Then out of those that are left, well, you know, a whole litany of stuff they do to you and don’t do for you. I’m not even mad about the gay brothas, ‘cause many times they’re the only men showing us any love and respect.
It makes me profoundly sad that this is the situation. And although I am fortunate to have several very good men in my life as friends, I’m 36 years old and have never been close to being married. Only two of my closest friends are married and some still don’t have children. Something has happened in our communities that we, men and women, have forgotten HOW to love each other. The “love” I’ve seen has many times been selfish and not about caring for the other person, but about what they can do for you. Maybe it’s just the times, but the basic human need for companionship and love will never go away.
Yes, I’m voting for Barack because he renews my belief that there are intelligent brown men out there that can love a woman without hurting her. There are men out there that can be an example of what a young daughter should look for in a man, what a son should aspire to be. Every time I see Barack and Michelle on television, I see the love that flows between them, I see the mutual admiration they hold for each other and the value they place on their family. This is the change I see coming when I see them together. I am inspired by many of the things Barack says and am excited about his candidacy for all of the political and historical reasons. But I am most comforted by his family values. I think that someone who loves his family so obviously will make better decisions for all of us. God bless the Obamas!
Sunday, June 29, 2008
(One big reason) why I’m voting for Barack Obama
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29 comments:
snoop dogg loves his kids and wife too.....i wonder if that makes her a fan of snoop, dizzle language, and crips....
hmmm! good point. that right there brings the conversation right back to MARKETING to me...
so it ain't about who Obama and Snoop are at home, it's about what they are doing outside of their homes that affect the world.
and as u said, capitalism and empire are so hypnotic that they'll have a man loving his wife at home and bombing villages, or making pop that pussy videos, while at the office and feeling good about going home to his wife for dinner.
See, this is the hysteria I'm talking about!
I mean, come on, Bush loves Laura and their twin girls but that didn't stop him from running the country into the ground. Dick Cheney married his high school sweetheart and look at him.
I feel like I can't say anything critical about the way people get all starry-eyed about him without being told to "get a grip" but, seriously?
I mean, it's great that Barack Obama loves his family but that doesn't automatically translate into being a great president. By contrast, you could be a terrible spouse and still be a great leader. Does one thing really cause/cancel out the other?
"I am voting Obama because he loves his wife"
wow. Is that how deep the political hysetria has become?
One point, how does this writer actually know Obama loves his wife?? Because he prances around with her??
wow. really. this is laughable.
im the dissenter here..i wont for him because he loves his wife..but as ive said before I do looove to see them together..those feelings have nothing to do with anything else....because in this day and age it is rare to see it...
snoop walks around with women on leashes
im not saying AT ALL that Obama's supreme willingness to carry on the status quo isnt worse...it is..since people will likely continue to die and continue to not be able to live worthy lives.
but you dont see that when you look at him..you dont see a dude with two women on leashes..with a pimp cup...
i am soooooooo not defending Mr Obama but I also do love to see that man and that woman together with their kids.
it may be marketing...hysteria..im not an obamaniac at all
yet a smile plays across my lips for a few minutes when i see them until im deeply bothered again.
my mother didnt marry..i havent seen many marriages up close
and i get that all we see of them is carefully orchestrated.
but they do make it look nice---in that there seems to be a ton of support there...mutually
it is rare to see a black man defend a black woman
though i think ive left the only-a-black-man-will-do-club
"why on earth would anyone of you who visit this site vote for obama ( for those that have said they will? I think the mccain is worse argument is weak myself...even though i may have said it... i mean if nothing changes....why not just vote for mccain...that way you dont have to hear people talking about liking to see a black married couple and their kids after november...he can just disappear and we can go back to the same ol..."
@ raven:
because we can walk and chew gum...
we can vote for a POLITICIAN and critique him and try to convince people that they need to be skeptical and ready to hold him accountable more than they need to be romanticizing over him and oooing and aaaahing over him.
ya'll just need to vote for mccain come november--for those of you...then the black husband and wife and their kids can be out of the picture..
I cant really understand being annoyed by someone finding that image positive...doesnt make sense to me.
but vote for mccain...quickest way to make it disappear and we can stop being annoyed by silly women who are critical enough to not be moved by that image of that man standing behind his wife ...and vice versa.....even though you NEVER hardly see it
think on it while you get your hair glossed..buy your nike dunks and liquor and snoop albums
it BEEEN stopped being critique around these parts and BEEN started been straight MOCKERY...which is cool I guess since Obama is selling p++s+Y as you put it
yes its good to mock black women who find the image of them inspirational...thats some critique right there
now let me get back to practice that...gum chewing..and walking to you say?
*writing it down real good*
Is it "hysteria" to be excited to see a positive image of a Black family? Really? As a parent I am more concerned about our leaders being role models than ever before. Why? Because my daughter asked me what did it mean that President Clinton cheated on Hillary? By many accounts, Clinton was one of the best Presidents we've had. Not a very good role model though and one reason why I couldn't be all that supportive of Hillary's candidacy because she stayed with that man who repeatedly humiliated her and her child in front of the whole damn world. This does not say much about her character.
This will be the 5th time I will vote for President, and it is the 1st time it is a vote FOR and not AGAINST. And as I said ONE reason to be excited about him. To be happy that in my lifetime I am seeing this. Something I honestly didn't think I would. Can you imagine how many elders out there really didn't think they would see this happen, EVER?
I find it amusing that one post calls it "prancing". The man can't be affectionate with his wife? Could it be fake? I suppose so. But from where I'm sitting it looks pretty real.
Ummm, I'm not sure it's a bad thing that people feel he's speaking to them for them about them and being truly excited about this candidacy. Were he a buffoon or power-hungry millionaire brat I wouldn't be voting for him. But that guy's already got the job.
"I find it amusing that one post calls it "prancing". The man can't be affectionate with his wife?"
thats called "critique" around here, susan. thats "critiquing" him on the issues..taking him to task. its insulting but you be careful before the rescuer comes swooping in
the sarcasm is counterproductive.
i responded to your question with no ill intent. if it came off as offensive just say so.
show me a post of MINE that's more mockery than critique. besides the "we finally got a piece of the pie" joint -- and i mean if THAT wasn't hysteria and racial propaganda than what is?
"I find it amusing that one post calls it "prancing"."
"thats called "critique" around here, susan. thats "critiquing" him on the issues..taking him to task. its insulting but you be careful before the rescuer comes swooping in"
i think we need to start saying to whose posts we are referring to when we use ammo like this. this is a space of free dialogue and to bunch the "Obama haters" into some idea of a majority group by simply referring to "one post i saw on this blog" is unfair.
PERSONALLY i don't think its that big a deal to be excited about a positive imagae of a black family.
what i think it is is easy.
and what i think is that that image has very little to do with the real functions of a president of the united states.
BUT i PERSONALLY, completely understand if raven feels good when she sees the image on TV. BUT i also recognize that she admits the reason she feels that way is because she's been deprived of those images. Therefore, she admits she's susceptible to this type of propaganda.
That's not a knock, that's thinking like a political strategist.
I was always one of the smart black boys in the classroom and trust I'm guilty of using that "positive black boy" card to my advantage to survive. All I'm saying is that I'm sure Obama knows to use that image to his political advantage.
And I'm really saying is WE ARE ALL GUESSING... the obama family lovers and the "obama haters"... so at the end of the day these images we are guessing at, and obama's true pesonal intentions matter waaaaaay less... IMHO, don't even register on the scale... than the political science involved here.
btw... i think hillary staying with Bill is a positive image of a family AND a marriage.
my critique, yes critique... can't speak for everyone... is centered on the notion that BLACK people in particular need to be able to be skeptical of even the "smart black boy" in the room... we need to be skeptical of politicians because that's what US electoral politics requires of us. so I CAN vote for Obama and I DO want to see Obama in the white house over McCain
although unlike Susan, I'm voting for Obama because I'm scared of McCain... if this was really a vote of confidence I'd vote for McKinney of Nader... I really can't see how a positive black family makes you vote FOR or is even a reason we should be encouraging people to vote for Obama... however, i do see how it might make one feel good, as a sort of bonus.
his policy is timid and status quo compared to Nader or McKinney...
raven, in love, where i feel misunderstood by you is that it feels like youre not allowing me to be nuanced or complex... hence the gum comment.
my stance from day one has been lets put this dude in the white house, but lets do it with a straight face, and not cheek to cheek grin on our faces.
i honestly am skeptical when i see the obama's on stage. i honestly do not feel any racial pride. before my racial pride button is triggered i need to know more about a person. so the image of a black family who i don't know, and worse who i can imagine bombing the same folks that've been bombed by Hoover, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush...
i am just as scared for my people as when i think of snoop doggy dogg.
I just find it interesting that the Democrats may be the party of 'family values' and the republican, if you like the mccain ads, are touting something more akin to the left. There will be obvious rifts in any groups left of center, if progressive people start taking up "mother, father, kids" style family values. I mean I would sort of be impressed if a candidate stood up and talked about extended family, and historical consciousness, but that hasn't happened yet.
I also sort of think that the CSPAN correspondent is right when when she says Obama is kind of the Rorshack (sp?) candidate, because some people see themselves in Obama and want him to be all things to all people. Or all things to a majority of people. The thing about a Republic or a Democracy is that we protect the rights of political minorities, whether they are 17th century puritans (as I believe some evangelicals are sort of) or 21st century atheists. So, in this instance if we continue to talk about the nuclear family as the model family and a sort of national standard, whether, Black, White, Native, Mixed, or whathaveyou, then do we embarass the single parent father who is raising his kids on his own, when we point out how difficult that must be and risk making that person some sort of martyr while those who are married with two kids reap the benefits of two-incomes, health insurance etc?
I am also not sure that this post doesn't in some ways sort of embarrass a lot of men of color out there who weren't raised by their fathers, an irony when you consider that Obama didn't have the opportunity to know his father.
Why is being critical and skeptical synonymous with being an Obama hater? Or it means you want to vote for McCain? Or not see a Black family in the White House?
I think we need to be critical and skeptical of any politician, of anyone promising change and delvering hope, regardless of race, color, class, backstory and not get so swept up into the newness of a Black man running for president that we don't ask ourselves, "What is this person really delivering and what is this person really going to accomplish?" (Mizzy, I think you made a great point about Obama being a Rorshach candidate.)
Yes, it's great to see the Obamas on stage. I think Michelle is intelligent and tough and poised and their kids are absolutely adorable. But at the end of the day, what matters most is how is he going to reverse the damage this administration has done. To me, anyway.
I definitely know McCain isn't the answer but I think we need to be as skeptical of the Obamas as we should be of any politician; I can't get with giving anyone a pass because they look like me.
And that's not bashing anyone or being hateful, I'm just being honest. When Hillary Clinton was running for president, I was just as skeptical of her even though I was simultaneously thrilled at the prospect of her as a viable female candidate for president, because I was tired of seeing white men run the show all the time.
Maybe "hysteria" is a charged term to use, but I thought I already established here that I'm angry at pretty much everything, so...
wow!
That 'one post' with the prancing comment must have been from me hey?
Sarcasm, or the dry british humor is hated upon over here? lol
First of all, I find it all rather odd how so many people are taking the obama issue so PERSONALLY, it's like I am talking about a member of their family - in that case i apologise! WOW.
Actually I shouldn't find this whole situation odd, because of what Obama signifies and yes that is an achievement within itself...
And there is the fact that "he isn't as bad as McCain" (which any idiot can work out) but heeyyyy coz he is 'black' and not mccain let us not criticise him because we may be accused of being 'racist', a 'sell out' or what not. gosh. honestly.
however, what i am providing here is a 'non american' view to the whole situation (which of course is simply ONE view - but am i actually allowed to provide that???)...and i am trying to show you how many people in the rest of the world view it...isn't that relevant?? or are those of us outside of america not actually that important...we are just cheese eating wine drinking aliens?
Personally, I don't get the idea of these politicians marketing ploys - with a ton of screaming fans surrounding them....I come from a place (well of residence) where politics are stiff and boring and they all wear unsightly grey suits - so please excuse my cynical tone.
However, the term 'prancing' was 'mocking' and not a critique - because the article that was posted in MY OPINION should be mocked...it was simple a load of nonsense...!
because what on earth has the idea (that apparently) obama loves his wife got to do with politics? politics which affects ALL of us, not just americans, THE WORLD. I am not personally interested if hes in love or not, I give a shit about the implications, the policies, his endless support for israel (and the continuation/increase of aid), his threats against pakistan and what not (which is so neatly accepted by too many out there because he could be the first black president)- thats the real issue here..
Furthermore, the whole 'prancing around with his wife' (how i chose to see it, or state it!!) is just another 'glossy' marketing ploy.
"A black man" who "stands by his woman" not a "man who stands by his woman"
Is this implying that a "black man" never stands by his wife? wow...talk about playing into the hands of stereotypes..
and you know what, I am merely an outsider...who is wishing to comment on this odd sort of politics - which i stand by comment when i said
it is all rather similar to a pornographic soap opera....and for those of you who need me to clairfy every point, i am talking about the whole election not just obama - i hope that is clear.
p.s the prancing blogger is called Nabeela....who doesn't make a habit of sitting around filing my nails waiting to be rescued.
lol.
& Mizzy made some interesting comments - which relate to the idea of the 'cornflake family'
the mum and dad with a couple of kids is the idea of a 'perfect' family and anything which deviates from this norm is sub-standard?
gosh. so to be a good politician we need to have a perfect little family and love our partner (well at least openly)
but heyyyy back to my original point - how do any of you out there know what his relationship is actually like...and isn't that a private matter?
wow. back to sunset beach i see.
"First of all, I find it all rather odd how so many people are taking the obama issue so PERSONALLY, it's like I am talking about a member of their family - in that case i apologise! WOW."
I feel the same way too. I'm probably just adding fuel to the fire but Nabeela, I'm going to have to co-sign on everything you said.
Susan, if you're still reading this here website, I wasn't trying to make a personal attack on you at all and if it came off that way, I do apologize.
But what I found troubling about your article is that it ignores the fact that, while yes, the statistics we see about Black men can be dire, there are plenty of Black men out there who do love their wives and families and who are not hellbent on disrespecting every Black woman they see. Also, why should the traditional nuclear family be the example for everyone? Just because all of us don't come from households with two parents and 2.5 kids doesn't automatically mean that household is dysfunctional and that it's just so rare for a Black man to love and care for his family. Not to mention, Black communities aren't the only ones affected by absentee parents.
It's like saying someone like Barack Obama is an exception, not the rule for many Black communities. Furthermore, we're all just guessing, as achali said, as to the state of their marriage because we're looking at from the outside. None of us has any way of really knowing what their relationship is like and truth be told, it's none of our business and has no bearing on someone's capabilities as a political leader.
I think it's the way we've been marketed to for so long, that we start to buy into the fact that someone who believes in "family values" would automatically be a great president.(And really, just what does that mean? If Barack Obama ended up divorcing Michelle, would that make him a less capable politcian? Would that make him less worthy of a vote? I'm not asking this to be a jerk, I'm asking for real.)
That's why I brought up Bush and Cheney, because yeah, they seem to love their wives and children and, in Cheney's case, grandchildren, but that hasn't stopped them from bombing other countries, and destroying other families.
All I'm saying is, we need to be as skeptical of ALL politicians, of ANYONE asking for our vote and Obama shouldn't be immune from that. And just because people voice those skepticisms doesn't mean:
a) We must want McCain to president, or
b) We have some personal vendetta against the Obamas or
c) We just like to mock everyone and be mean-spirited in general.
Personally, I haven't seen anything here written about Him (I'm so tired of typing out his name right now, haha) that was just straight up mockery or came off as hateful. It just hasn't been all unabashed adoration of Him all the time.
Questioning what He is going to do for his constituents and questioning what WE, as his constituents, will demand of him, is not being hateful. We need to have soft eyes this election cycle now more than ever, and not get caught up in a sea of rhetoric and spin. I'm just sayin'.
Danielle..I appreciate the fuel in the sense it is good to have an open discussion about a could be president -its actually healthy.
People are definately getting tooooo emotional about the whole issue, but I DO understand that is because so many issues that are being addressed here are some what personal
i.e the concept of the 'family', the battle for racial equality, the need for hope and change..
to take this all personally is justified...we all want change, we all want our leaders to reflet what we want - and i can see all liberator readers/bloggers want to see justice and equality for the people..
we are all fighting the same cause...
HOWEVER what is vital in any situation is to go in with your eyes open to reality as opposed to narrow biased view...based on personal experiences or interpretations.
I personally wish, all the negative stuff i hear bout obama is fabricated and he somehow he will provide a level of sanity in the american government - the benefits of which would extend to the entire world.
But this is real life, not a fluffy fairytale where we are fortunate enough to have a happy ending. Good relationship with Michelle or not, it is so far from the point it really does not matter.
His relationship will not pull troops out of iraq, give you free healthcare, protect immigrants rights, stop further pre-emptive strikes or see an end to genocide in darfur. please someone explain the correlation?
I mean, there is the idea (now don't attack me on this - i may be wrong - i may be right i don't know) that Mandella used to beat his wife, but did that make him a bullshit revolutionary?
I think not.
His relationship had nothing to do with what he stood for. True if any leader encompasses change, positivity and so forth he must incorporate it in his own life - but the two don't always go hand in hand.
That is life. Tough as it seems, we must be realistic.
Without critique (in any form and remember ways of expression should not be forced into one generic box) how can any of us learn?
I too am getting sick of Obama blogs/etc i had to actually stop myself from posting a new piece on him - because there are thousands of other issues going on around the world, there are other important elections like zimbabwe....
martin luther king cheated on his wife, che guevara... i''m sure the list goes on...
great leaders are human.
to put any aspect of anyone on a pedestal -- or to allow our excitement over one aspect of a persons image to cloud our knowledge that everyone is flawed -- is really what we need to be fighting against... we will ALWAYS discover something about everyone that disappointments us.
which is why above all change comes from a community of people HOLDING EACH OTHER AND THEIR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE, with love.
the way to improve families of color is to always be reminding outselves that all families are flawed and resolve ourselves to holding other families accountable... (i.e. healthy skepticism)...
we give media too much power... once we start relying on "positive images" as our ammo aginst "negative images" we're just playing into the fire of "positive" idolism against the fire of "negative" idolism...
in the end we'll learn the hard way that idolism is idolism.
Okay, that’s a lot to sift through. And a lot to try to respond to. Achali, I’m sorry the points I am going to make are based on the reading of all of these posts and so I may not reference to whom each one belongs. I also may mix my thoughts on the other blog started by Danielle. ** I feel I need to add a disclaimer as well, I am not speaking only of Black men or Black people in general because these issues affect all communities of color**You all had A LOT to say. So here goes…and in no particular order.
Given my background, personal history, peoples’ history with this Nation (and the way it came about) I do not even think that this country should exist, I believe that I live in an occupied country. So having to “fight for our rights” in my ancestral home has been a very difficult thing to accept. I feel that we all should be able to live in a way that is good but it is what it is. Coming to terms with that also means acknowledging the very real and ugly circumstances that many communities of color are in. Whether or not these circumstances are a legacy of genocidal policies, slavery, abject racism, religious persecution or what have you. The fact is that there is a mountain of change that needs to happen to begin to counteract what is the reality for many of us.
It’s a mistake to assume that his apparent love for his wife is the ONLY reason I support his candidacy. However, symbolism can be a very powerful tool in reversing the way people see themselves. It is poignant to me because I was raised by a single-mother and I am one myself. As was Obama raised by a single-mother and his grandparents. My sisters were raised by my grandparents. I can relate to that. Of course a healthy family can be made out of more than just a mother and a father, there is no shame in being born into whatever family you are born into. Having said that, there is a very real lack of men, of fathers specifically, in our communities. And again out of the ones that are left there are too many that are doing shit they shouldn’t be doing. Not all, but still TOO MANY.
There is also a lack people of color in positions of power. And as we all know a serious lack of positive images of men of color. As I watched the news recently and a story about yet another Black male doing some crime came on, my 8 year-old asked me “why is it always Black guys getting in trouble?” Aw shit, how do I explain this one? Try to explain media bias to a kid but also with the knowledge that a disproportionate number of Black men are engaged in criminal activity. For whatever reason(s) this may be true, sadly it IS true.
Sooo, the image of a successful and apparently loving Black family is powerful. To me, and it seems, to many others. Their backgrounds (what I know of) make it that much more so. So no, I can’t know if they’re for real because I’m not in their home with them. But I also don’t think that we have to automatically assume that it is propaganda or that it is staged as a political strategy. I don’t know if what I have seen CAN be faked. My perspective.
Another thought on love, as people have said that Bush, Cheney and Snoop love their families. That may be true, but do they care about yours? I’ve heard Obama speak on caring not only for ourselves in the time that we are living but also about providing something different and better for our GRANDCHILDREN. Real love flows from an unselfish place. And leaders among my people in the distant past (as I have been taught) put the well being of the people and the people-to-come first. This kind of love is not often taught, at home or by society. Barack Obama strikes me as someone who was loved in his upbringing and is able to express that with his family (again what I have seen), which leads me to believe that he will make decisions with us in mind. I’m not sure how you can truly love your children and make the world such a dangerous place for THEIR children to come (as in Bush/Cheney) or how you can love any of the women in your family and treat other women so disrespectfully (as in Snoop). My saying “family values” was a reference to the use of this term by the right constantly talking about their superior family values. Values that emphasize only THEIR families, but not mine or yours or btw the world community that we belong to.
Every time in this Nation’s history when there has been significant social and political change, people who position themselves to make such change must do some things they may not want to do. Based on the understanding that it is the CHANGE that is more important than perhaps their personal feelings. (When I say change, I am not trying to invoke Obama’s mantra) Hence, distancing himself from Rev. Wright. This country is on the brink of undergoing a major shift in our collective paradigm. Not he’s the 1st Black CEO of a major company or he’s the first Black mayor of a major metro area, or he’s the 1st Black ball player in MLB or any of the other firsts people shouldn’t have had to fight so hard for but did. Each one of these firsts produced a shift in paradigm and at that moment there was all the time before and then all the time after. No he’s (I hope) the 1st NON-WHITE person to become President of the United States. Does this mean don’t question him or hold him to a lower standard? Not at all. He will be held to a higher standard by the whole world.
I know this is getting long, my apologies to all, but there’s just a few more things. So idolism is not what I was advocating or guilty of. But yes, symbolism can be a very powerful positive or negative tool. And symbolism has been used in all cultures, all over the world for nearly all the time that humans have been on earth. We have been exposed to so many negative symbols that a positive image that carries this much weight should not be discounted or dismissed. It is of enormous social, political and historical significance.
Leaders are human and make mistakes and that may not impede their ability to do their jobs. But personally, I am tired of leaders who fuck up in their personal lives. Isn’t that lowering the bar for some people? I mean I think it’s okay for musicians and celebrities to fuck up, but I was embarrassed by Bill Clinton. Just as I am embarrassed by this moron we have now. And maybe all of the people that were referenced did some things to their wives, cheating on, hurting them. Have you been cheated on? That shit hurts and fucks with your self worth. One of the biggest reasons our communities are as fucked up as they are is because the women are hurting. Maybe it’s our acceptance that “our leaders are human and make mistakes” that allows them to make these kind of mistakes. I may be proven wrong, but Obama seems to be an honorable man where his woman is concerned and I respect that. No one else has to and I’m not thinking anyone should vote for him because of this. Peace and blessings to all.
symbolism is important. agreed. you may find it more important here than me and i guess we may have to end it at that.
please listen to Mumia's commentary on the whole "Nader vs. Obama" shit thats going down...
i dunno... there are so many wise folks who i respect who are saying that we ought to be vary weary of Obama... and i tend to ride with folks who've proven themselves, rather than riding with the hype.
if the hype turns out to be true i've lost nothing i didn't expect to lose. if it turns out to be false, i've lost nothing, while those who believed in it have lost much.
"BUT i PERSONALLY, completely understand if raven feels good when she sees the image on TV. BUT i also recognize that she admits the reason she feels that way is because she's been deprived of those images. Therefore, she admits she's susceptible to this type of propaganda."
liking the image that I see makes me susceptible to propaganda? Dude!!! Ill consider that my point was not written very clearly instead of thinking that people are reading what they want in to it. But give me a break. I can BE snarky so Ill just take that as snarky being handed back to me.
I think its silly to characterize as it as obama haters and obama lovers since the supposed "Obama lovers" or this one anyway wont likely even vote for the man. It is not that black and white.
I understand people's reaction to him and my sole point is that it shouldnt to be mocked IN MY OPINION. Your mocking the pysche of people. But whatever. There HAVE BEEN posts that did just that.
and for the record, my question as to why vote for the man if he what he is doing is akin to selling azz to you is a legitimate one. i think its weak and contradictory of an argument to say its because McCain will be worse...how is Mr Obama any different from McCain and how can things be worse.
I dont care to change my sarcasm..and I wont ..especially when its loaded in other's posts too( but we know why that goes unnoticed:-)
But there is definitely something I can change.
Raven/Susceptible to PRopaganda bc she admires the image of Barack Obama and his wife while clearly stating that its a kneejerk emotion/reaction before she puts in to perspective just what this dude is about/my opinion isnt in vogue here so its invalid or somn id like that
"People are definately getting tooooo emotional about the whole issue, but I DO understand that is because so many issues that are being addressed here are some what personal"
this will definitelly be my last post..but who are you to tell someone they are getting "too emotional" over this issue. ANd also who are you or who is anyone to tell someone why they shouldnt vote for a candidate for any reason they choose? That TONE is why your posts annoy me.
the be-logical-never-consider-your-emotins-imma-tell-ya -what -to think-people kill me. This is a blog. Humans are multidimensional!!! ANd while I would not vote for any candidate soley because they love their wife, I actually dont have a problem with others doing so...if that is important to them..strikes a chord within that person.,,makes them feel its not completely pointless to vote.
Its incredibly condescending to call someone to emotional, to mock, and to label someone susceptible to propaganda because they dare to be touched by some image they See on TV!!!
I am logical and emotional person ..you dont have the right to tell me or anyone how to view any issue or just how emotional to get...thought this blog may have erroneously(sp) given you that impression.
Ugh.this is enough
@ raven:
i'm not sure who you're talking to in the second comment...
i don't think you should be so defensive about your susceptibility to propaganda.
in a way we are ALL susceptible to it precisely because we are ALL susceptible to having kneejerk reactions. that's what propaganda plays off of in all of us. no one is attacking you. calm down.
on the mocking issue... i'd still challenge you to point out a post of mine that is more mocking than critique. but maybe you're not talking to me. if not, moving on...
there are differences because obama is a democrat and mccain is a republican. same as there were differences between john kerry and george bush. my point is that obama is no different than kerry or any other democrat.
why does sarcasm in other people's posts go unnoticed? i didn't understand the smiley face...
all in all i'm cool with Susan voting for obama due to his family image... all i've ever been arguing is that we need to be prepared just the same whether he fulfills out greatest fantasies or if he disappointments us.
I'm coming to this post late, but I did want to ask you raven if some specific incident happened on the blog to offend you? I have read many of your posts and always found them positive and engaging. I never sensed any sarcasm or anger in them, so when I read through this thread I was interested in your anger. What exactly caused it? I am confused by it. Or was this post simply the straw that broke the camel's back (many things had been annoying you on the blog and this was just the last straw)? I admit, I was more interested in figuring out the answer to these curiosities than I was in the original post. I hope these questions are not offensive. I just would hate for the blog to lose a contributor because of some misunderstanding(s).
@ Raven...
I must correct you, when i said "people are getting to emotional" i was not actually refering to you - It was a general comment about the whole campaign - all the hype over Obama - and the idea that he is some how going to bring this immense level of change to the system..
I am fully aware that our view on politics are shaped by our personal experiences - and emotions, for example one the reasons i don't like Obama is the fact he threatened my country (of origin)- pakistan. Obviously I was going to take that on board.
However seeing people cry and run to embrace obama on tv was rather dodgy if you ask me - but just like you im stating my opinion 'in a blog'..
annoyed as you may be over my 'tone' - that comment was not for you take ownership over...it was a generalised comment
& furthermore I have not actually said "raven do not vote obama" lol. do what your doing my dear, all i am saying is for people to make an informed choice, instead of choices based on things like "oh he loves his wife and is a good black man coz he loves his family"
mocking tones. yes. cynical? yes. i am a little sarcastic too...dry in humor too... apologies, but once again it goes back to cultural/social understandings of how we articulate ourselves...
but then again i take a sarcastic view to this whole election, because in MY OPINION it's nothing short of a farse.
I don't think I was clear enough, I meant I am sarcastic when I am met with comments such as
"its insulting but you be careful before the rescuer comes swooping in"
(thats just one example - because there was one or two about me apparently needing rescuing once more on a previous post)..
is that 'critique' or allowing blogs to reflect 'opinions'.
This is supposed to be a discussion on obama not a load of angry rhetoric
but anyway -
*peace and unity* amongst all the so called conscience people right....right??!
Raven, it'd really make me sad to see you no longer contribute to the Liberator. (I hope you meant your post is the last on this subject, and not the last for the Liberator...) If I said anything to offend you personally, that was definitely not my intent. When I was talking about Obama "hysteria", I really was talking in generalities, I'm definitely not interested in making personal attacks on this site. (And I do acknowledge that hysteria's a loaded term, and I also do acknowledge, as I've said before, that I'm just angry at pretty much everything.)
Also, I definitely don't think everyone should automatically agree with how I feel because I sure as hell don't know everything and plus that would be so boring.
But I do want to emphasize that a lot of the things I say here are tongue-in-cheek, especially the "[Blank] take a seat" posts. That's not to say I don't stand by how I feel, but I do hope they're not coming off as posts that merely offend people or insult their intelligence. That's definitely not my intent, it's more to get people to think and do it in (what I STRONGLY hope) is a funny, quirky, weird, purposefully over-the-top way.
And Susan, thanks so much for your post, it's not too long at all. There are a lot of things on which I agree with you, a lot of things I don't agree with, but I definitely understand where you're coming from as well.
I know this post is long as hell again, so if you've read this far, congrats. Just wanted to clear up some things. Hopefully anyway...
"Raven, it'd really make me sad to see you no longer contribute to the Liberator. (I hope you meant your post is the last on this subject, and not the last for the Liberator...) If I said anything to offend you personally, that was definitely not my intent"
not at all danielle..not at all...I understood your viewpoints...i myself often take it there at times and only wonder after if what ive said could have been said without the snark...which makes me think that is ridiculous that i cant ever have an attitude about something for fear of being the black woman with the attitude :-)...I dont believe in being dehumanised that way so I say what I feel and dont suppress my emotions bc im scared of some white person or black man (lol) having an issue with it...not that it has anything to do with your comment lol...just saying that I do appreciate your comment and attempting to explain my perspective.
i have a difficult time communicating with people who make no effort to understand that they could not possibly be privy to some of the thought processes of a black person living in this country.that there are subtle tones that are hard to understand...thats is actually an aspect of white supremancy ( though when i was accused of handing out that description on another topic ...it wasnt the case..at that time)...and the most vicious and deep examples of white supremacy that ive witnessed have not come from actual white people....but from who I call functional whites ( folks who are culturally and political white)..and that includes some black people.
I am honest with myself about my debating skills ( i spend the bulk of my life learning how to be a good doctor..i read what I can when I can and my debates with people these days include the causes of postpartum hemmorhage and AFI indexes) and often react with emotion ( which i refuse to see as a bad thing).
Its a funny thing to see a person who holds a mouse ( or who is in the group that does this shit) by the tail have the gall to critique that mouse. I find that sickening. Dont question my humanity when you cant even confront the problems with yours...like those articles posted months ago..these thoughts are just why I became so angered with some of the replies and the new tones of the blog.
Like i mentioned to one of the editor/bloggers who emailed me..i felt this wasnt the place for some of my reactions ..particulary bc it seemed that is was the place for some of those reactions.
thanks for your comments. I didnt mean to offend you either
-raven
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